Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

[Conan]

Hi guys,

I've heard certain units are much better when using there secondary weapon such as babylonian spearmen and hellenic elite infantry....is there or does anyone know of a list which mentions all these units?

[Ibrahim]

Hi guys,

I've heard certain units are much better when using there secondary weapon such as babylonian spearmen and hellenic elite infantry....is there or does anyone know of a list which mentions all these units?

heavy cavalry.

[Seneca]

Thorakitai hoplitai, Massaliotai hoplitai.

[vartan]

heavy cavalry.

Not if you're playing the AI or humans that don't use secondaries with their cav.

@Conan It isn't as simple as the secondary weapon being better than the primary. AFAIK there are bonuses for spears against cavalry, but no such bonuses when using swords or something else. So the question isn't complicated enough. You should ask: What type of unit am I using, and what type of unit am I up against? Then you can figure out by calculation which weapon is appropriate in that setting.

[Kikaz]

Appea Gaedotos, Mori Gaesum

[Apázlinemjó]

Galatikoi Kuarothoroi and their Arverni friends. Ahh, and Solduros.

[Ibrahim]

Not if you're playing the AI or humans that don't use secondaries with their cav.

@Conan It isn't as simple as the secondary weapon being better than the primary. AFAIK there are bonuses for spears against cavalry, but no such bonuses when using swords or something else. So the question isn't complicated enough. You should ask: What type of unit am I using, and what type of unit am I up against? Then you can figure out by calculation which weapon is appropriate in that setting.

it does give you a better edge-no matter how slightly it is. so to me, it is essential.

that's how I work; I pinch-penny my way to success

[vartan]

it does give you a better edge-no matter how slightly it is. so to me, it is essential.

that's how I work; I pinch-penny my way to success

That's the thing, it doesn't. The primary weapon kills more enemy men than does the secondary weapon. This is the WTF?! phenomenon of the last half decade in EB.

[antisocialmunky]

From an MP stand point, the lance is ridiculous on cavalry. It is ALWAYS the best weapon to use versus other heavy cavalry. However the secondaries are good if you leave them in melee with infantry(that carry swords and have no AP).

[Cute Wolf]

yeah, ap - poking sticks for cavalry are quite overpowered, especially against armoured targets in melee, if you have BI, you could receive more realistic result by removing AP properties, adding 4 points of damage, and give power_charge attribute, that way, they stops being excellent can-opener with poking sticks, as well as being more realistically devastating to unarmoured infantry

[gamegeek2]

The real problem with the lances is the .4 lethality - that's the kicker. It's needed to keep the charges effective. I'll see about power_charge.

[vartan]

yeah, ap - poking sticks for cavalry are quite overpowered, especially against armoured targets in melee, if you have BI, you could receive more realistic result by removing AP properties, adding 4 points of damage, and give power_charge attribute, that way, they stops being excellent can-opener with poking sticks, as well as being more realistically devastating to unarmoured infantry

Gamegeek is right about the lethality. It's so to make balanced the charge. So why do you say that the "poking stick" was more devastating to unarmoured infantry and that it is overpowered against armoured units in melee? Where did that come from?

[Cute Wolf]

Gamegeek is right about the lethality. It's so to make balanced the charge. So why do you say that the "poking stick" was more devastating to unarmoured infantry and that it is overpowered against armoured units in melee? Where did that come from?

try pitting TWO leuce epos (no javelin throwed) against a Nietos, and then try Pitting TWO leuce epos against a Milhant (unarmoured one), the nietos will be likely to be slaughtered, but the Milhant will got a close victory for the most...

[Apázlinemjó]

Milnahts' half-naked bodies break lances!

[Rahwana]

Milnahts' half-naked bodies break lances!

and the lances seems reluctant to see Gaesatae's wee wee... they still alive after a lance pierce them for the first time

[Grade_A_Beef]

Babylonian Heavy Spearmen (Shipri Tukul I believe)

Anyhow you want to avoid using alt click for most units that have a longsword primary and spear secondary. This mainly applies to Arjos, Solduros, Massalian Hoplites, Hypastpistai, and the Getai infantry elites...Men of Ordes or something like that. More may come to mind, but those units are all elites or good regulars and units most people would be rather fond of using, so watch out.

[Moosemanmoo]

Would it be useful to disable some secondaries? For instance my Hypaspists keep switching from longsword to spear, rendering them weaker (ofc not against cav)

[vartan]

Would it be useful to disable some secondaries? For instance my Hypaspists keep switching from longsword to spear, rendering them weaker (ofc not against cav)

Just halt and reorder the attack every minute because the soldiers that fall are the ones that switch to spears (as if they had lost their sword...).

[Intranetusa]

The unit with the most useless 2nd alt-click weapon? Sacred Band infantry.

It has a spear attack of 17, sword attack of 13 (no AP). Both weapons have a lethality of 0.13 and 0.13.

Even taking into account the -3 the spear gets for fighting against infantry, the spear is still better than the Sacred Band's sword against all opponent types. There is absolutely no reason to use the Sacred Band's alt-click sword in any situation.

[vartan]

Too bad it starts using the sword once it "drops" its spear when the S-Band soldier is shoved down to the ground and gets back up... Gotta love the engine!

[Intranetusa]

Too bad it starts using the sword once it "drops" its spear when the S-Band soldier is shoved down to the ground and gets back up... Gotta love the engine!

I think you can 'reequip' the Sacred Band with the spear if you repeatedly left click though... =)

[vartan]

I think you can 'reequip' the Sacred Band with the spear if you repeatedly left click though... =)

Halt (backspace) >> Reorder attack (right-click on enemy unit). If you're quick you won't lose too many men in the process.

[Intranetusa]

yep, that's exactly what I meant.

[Julianus]

From an MP stand point, the lance is ridiculous on cavalry. It is ALWAYS the best weapon to use versus other heavy cavalry. However the secondaries are good if you leave them in melee with infantry(that carry swords and have no AP).

I remember asking this question here before. However the answer I got is that only infantry spear has bonus against cavalry, so you should still switch to your secondary weapon when your horsemen engage enemy cavalry. Now I'm really confused...

[antisocialmunky]

It has a super fast attack and can not be interrupted.