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Thread: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

  1. #1

    Default Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Hi guys,

    I've heard certain units are much better when using there secondary weapon such as babylonian spearmen and hellenic elite infantry....is there or does anyone know of a list which mentions all these units?

  2. #2
    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by Conan View Post
    Hi guys,

    I've heard certain units are much better when using there secondary weapon such as babylonian spearmen and hellenic elite infantry....is there or does anyone know of a list which mentions all these units?
    heavy cavalry.
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    KHaddict Member Seneca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Thorakitai hoplitai, Massaliotai hoplitai.

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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post
    heavy cavalry.
    Not if you're playing the AI or humans that don't use secondaries with their cav.

    @Conan It isn't as simple as the secondary weapon being better than the primary. AFAIK there are bonuses for spears against cavalry, but no such bonuses when using swords or something else. So the question isn't complicated enough. You should ask: What type of unit am I using, and what type of unit am I up against? Then you can figure out by calculation which weapon is appropriate in that setting.
    Last edited by vartan; 06-19-2010 at 17:20.
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    Sandwich Maker Member Kikaz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Appea Gaedotos, Mori Gaesum


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    πολέμαρχος Member Apázlinemjó's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Galatikoi Kuarothoroi and their Arverni friends. Ahh, and Solduros.
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    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    Not if you're playing the AI or humans that don't use secondaries with their cav.

    @Conan It isn't as simple as the secondary weapon being better than the primary. AFAIK there are bonuses for spears against cavalry, but no such bonuses when using swords or something else. So the question isn't complicated enough. You should ask: What type of unit am I using, and what type of unit am I up against? Then you can figure out by calculation which weapon is appropriate in that setting.
    it does give you a better edge-no matter how slightly it is. so to me, it is essential.

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post
    it does give you a better edge-no matter how slightly it is. so to me, it is essential.

    that's how I work; I pinch-penny my way to success
    That's the thing, it doesn't. The primary weapon kills more enemy men than does the secondary weapon. This is the WTF?! phenomenon of the last half decade in EB.
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    From an MP stand point, the lance is ridiculous on cavalry. It is ALWAYS the best weapon to use versus other heavy cavalry. However the secondaries are good if you leave them in melee with infantry(that carry swords and have no AP).
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    yeah, ap - poking sticks for cavalry are quite overpowered, especially against armoured targets in melee, if you have BI, you could receive more realistic result by removing AP properties, adding 4 points of damage, and give power_charge attribute, that way, they stops being excellent can-opener with poking sticks, as well as being more realistically devastating to unarmoured infantry

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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    The real problem with the lances is the .4 lethality - that's the kicker. It's needed to keep the charges effective. I'll see about power_charge.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by Cute Wolf View Post
    yeah, ap - poking sticks for cavalry are quite overpowered, especially against armoured targets in melee, if you have BI, you could receive more realistic result by removing AP properties, adding 4 points of damage, and give power_charge attribute, that way, they stops being excellent can-opener with poking sticks, as well as being more realistically devastating to unarmoured infantry
    Gamegeek is right about the lethality. It's so to make balanced the charge. So why do you say that the "poking stick" was more devastating to unarmoured infantry and that it is overpowered against armoured units in melee? Where did that come from?
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    Gamegeek is right about the lethality. It's so to make balanced the charge. So why do you say that the "poking stick" was more devastating to unarmoured infantry and that it is overpowered against armoured units in melee? Where did that come from?
    try pitting TWO leuce epos (no javelin throwed) against a Nietos, and then try Pitting TWO leuce epos against a Milhant (unarmoured one), the nietos will be likely to be slaughtered, but the Milhant will got a close victory for the most...

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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Milnahts' half-naked bodies break lances!
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by Apázlinemjó View Post
    Milnahts' half-naked bodies break lances!
    and the lances seems reluctant to see Gaesatae's wee wee... they still alive after a lance pierce them for the first time
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Babylonian Heavy Spearmen (Shipri Tukul I believe)

    Anyhow you want to avoid using alt click for most units that have a longsword primary and spear secondary. This mainly applies to Arjos, Solduros, Massalian Hoplites, Hypastpistai, and the Getai infantry elites...Men of Ordes or something like that. More may come to mind, but those units are all elites or good regulars and units most people would be rather fond of using, so watch out.

  17. #17
    Megas Moose Member Moosemanmoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Would it be useful to disable some secondaries? For instance my Hypaspists keep switching from longsword to spear, rendering them weaker (ofc not against cav)
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by Moosemanmoo View Post
    Would it be useful to disable some secondaries? For instance my Hypaspists keep switching from longsword to spear, rendering them weaker (ofc not against cav)
    Just halt and reorder the attack every minute because the soldiers that fall are the ones that switch to spears (as if they had lost their sword...).
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    Member Member Intranetusa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    The unit with the most useless 2nd alt-click weapon? Sacred Band infantry.

    It has a spear attack of 17, sword attack of 13 (no AP). Both weapons have a lethality of 0.13 and 0.13.

    Even taking into account the -3 the spear gets for fighting against infantry, the spear is still better than the Sacred Band's sword against all opponent types. There is absolutely no reason to use the Sacred Band's alt-click sword in any situation.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Too bad it starts using the sword once it "drops" its spear when the S-Band soldier is shoved down to the ground and gets back up... Gotta love the engine!
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    Member Member Intranetusa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    Too bad it starts using the sword once it "drops" its spear when the S-Band soldier is shoved down to the ground and gets back up... Gotta love the engine!
    I think you can 'reequip' the Sacred Band with the spear if you repeatedly left click though... =)
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by Intranetusa View Post
    I think you can 'reequip' the Sacred Band with the spear if you repeatedly left click though... =)
    Halt (backspace) >> Reorder attack (right-click on enemy unit). If you're quick you won't lose too many men in the process.
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  23. #23
    Member Member Intranetusa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    yep, that's exactly what I meant.
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  24. #24

    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky View Post
    From an MP stand point, the lance is ridiculous on cavalry. It is ALWAYS the best weapon to use versus other heavy cavalry. However the secondaries are good if you leave them in melee with infantry(that carry swords and have no AP).
    I remember asking this question here before. However the answer I got is that only infantry spear has bonus against cavalry, so you should still switch to your secondary weapon when your horsemen engage enemy cavalry. Now I'm really confused...

  25. #25
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essentual units to use 'Alt-Click' with

    It has a super fast attack and can not be interrupted.
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