How do attack values work? Attack + lethality, armor/shield/etc

**The Celtic Viking** · 06-23-2010, 00:28

Defense skill never work for any other direction than front and right. If a unit doesn't have a shield value, then it simply doesn't get any shield bonus.

As for unit creation, you can find the unit name in the EDU. It should be the first name given. For example, for 1 basic Pahlavan horse archer with 2 experience, 3 armour upgrade and 4 weapon upgrade in Persepolis it is:

create_unit Persepolis "steppe missile cavalry pahlava shivatir" 1 2 3 4

**Intranetusa** · 06-23-2010, 00:37

Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

Defense skill never work for any other direction than front and right. If a unit doesn't have a shield value, then it simply doesn't get any shield bonus.

Interesting. I guess that means attacking a Gaesatate is better from the left than the right side due to the 4 shield vs 15 defense skill ratio...

Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

As for unit creation, you can find the unit name in the EDU. It should be the first name given. For example, for 1 basic Pahlavan horse archer with 2 experience, 3 armour upgrade and 4 weapon upgrade in Persepolis it is:
create_unit Persepolis "steppe missile cavalry pahlava shivatir" 1 2 3 4

Cool thanks! Time to spawn 10 full stacks of gold chevroned Iberian Assault Infantry & Sacred Band to attack Rome... :D

EDIT: Btw,

"steppe missile cavalry pahlava shivatir" isn't an actual unit right? I can't find it in the EB units list on: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/

**The Celtic Viking** · 06-23-2010, 00:50

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Interesting. I guess that means attacking a Gaesatate is better from the left than the right side due to the 4 shield vs 15 defense skill ratio...

That's correct.

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Cool thanks! Time to spawn 10 full stacks of gold chevroned Iberian Assault Infantry & Sacred Band to attack Rome... :D

Glad I could help you with that noble endeavour.

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

EDIT: Btw,

"steppe missile cavalry pahlava shivatir" isn't an actual unit right? I can't find it in the EB units list on: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/

Yeah, it is. It's the Shivatir-i Pahlavanig (Parthian Horse-Archers)

**gamegeek2** · 06-23-2010, 01:06

According to Aradan, the formula for chance to kill is (assuming Medium difficulty)

const1 * lethality * 1.1 ^ ( ATK - DEF + MDF )

not sure what const1 is, but it is a constant, so when comparing values you don't need to factor that in

**Cute Wolf** · 06-23-2010, 15:49

Originally Posted by gamegeek2

According to Aradan, the formula for chance to kill is (assuming Medium difficulty)

const1 * lethality * 1.1 ^ ( ATK - DEF + MDF )

not sure what const1 is, but it is a constant, so when comparing values you don't need to factor that in

animation factor constant, according to some TWC articles, animations that was basically slow, and had huge delays between their attacks are less effective than fast and less delayed animations

**gamegeek2** · 06-23-2010, 17:00

Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

animation factor constant, according to some TWC articles, animations that was basically slow, and had huge delays between their attacks are less effective than fast and less delayed animations

Yes, that is correct. However, this is the calculation for the chance of a given melee attack killing its target, it doesn't factor in how fast the attacks come.

**Cambyses** · 06-23-2010, 20:19

Originally Posted by gamegeek2

Yes, that is correct. However, this is the calculation for the chance of a given melee attack killing its target, it doesn't factor in how fast the attacks come.

Well, yes, mathematically it may be very difficult to model, but it is extremely important to consider attack animation speed. It is a major reason why twohanders are less effective in frontal assaults IMO. Also, mass is important. Units being pushed back dont appear to be able to attack as often from what I have seen. This is less of an issue in EB1 and indeed RTW generally, but it does still matter.

High attack speed well armoured units are often very effective in frontal assaults. even if their stats are worse than those of the slower units they are attacking. This is because a hit that doesnt kill still prevents the defender from attacking. Which brings me to my last point which is that tighter formations and/or larger numbers allow troops with slower attack animations to be more effective - for obvious reasons.

So, in short, a purely mathematical approach without considering all these other factors would lead to a rather unbalanced mod.

**Kikaz** · 06-23-2010, 02:28

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Gaesatate

Okay this is off topic but it's been bugging me and I have to ask: Why don't you type Gaesatae? At first I thought it was a spelling error but you've been quite consistent with the spelling and I'm curious as to why you spell it like that.

**Intranetusa** · 06-23-2010, 02:34

Originally Posted by Kikaz

Okay this is off topic but it's been bugging me and I have to ask: Why don't you type Gaesatae? At first I thought it was a spelling error but you've been quite consistent with the spelling and I'm curious as to why you spell it like that.

Because it's an incredibly difficult word to spell, and I always thought it was pronounced with two t's such as: Gus-ta-tay?

**Kikaz** · 06-23-2010, 02:46

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Because it's an incredibly difficult word to spell, and I always thought it was pronounced with two t's such as: Gus-ta-tay?

Hmm... Odd, since you've been spelling it right save for the "t"... I haven't heard or seen the extra "t" pronounciation or spelling, I don't have EB on this computer so I can't double check.

**antisocialmunky** · 06-23-2010, 03:54

How does movement fit in for shield? Units take more damage from the front while moving than just standing there. Is the shield applied when moving or is it just not doubled? I seem to recall that it is only doubled when standing still.

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · 06-23-2010, 05:17

Also the ready position is a better defense against missiles than idle.

I believe it is pronounced Guy-sa-tay btw

**Intranetusa** · 06-23-2010, 17:13

Originally Posted by Kikaz

Hmm... Odd, since you've been spelling it right save for the "t"... I haven't heard or seen the extra "t" pronounciation or spelling, I don't have EB on this computer so I can't double check.

You're probably correct. My spelling is jerry rigged.

Originally Posted by Macilrille

Write exactly as follows:
create_unit settlement/"Character" "Type" _ _ _ _
...
I have often tried to use this, move_character(moving rebel stacks to nearest rebel settlement) and add_money to stop blitzing from AI factions and get a historical-ish expansion, but it never succeeds, even with 60+ units and a million Mnai The Yellow Death and Pontos in my current campaign is still overrunning the AS and the Sweboz still pwns their Eleutheroi neighbours. I am not certain it is worth the hassle. I have also used it to get reformed Sweboz infantry after reforms should have happened but only heavy cav was available. I created infantry in the relevant towns and gifted other factions with the equivalant Mnai.

Cool thanks. Although the main reason for me to spawn units isn't to stop AI expansion, but to give me a challenge. ie. If I'm Carthage, I want to spawn 10 full stacks of hastati/principes/triari in Italy when my army is about to invade Rome. If I'm Rome, I want to spawn 10 full stacks of elite Carthie units...

Mostly just about the challenge of fighting wave after wave of full stack enemies with your same veteran units. ;)