So no mod support...

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Oh good, I've got a lot of games to catch up on anyway, this will make the schedule easier.

[Crazed Rabbit]

If the game is good out of the box I'm ok with this.

What he said.

And if I could fly I'd be okay with a lack of airplanes.

CR

[Magraev]

No need to worry about buying this product then. I'm still quite content with RTW and M2TW (and their many mods). Haven't bought Empire and probably wont buy Shogun2 either.

Too bad.

[chris7394]

I think steam is to blame for no mod support. It allows developers to spoon feed us updates and dlc, which is much more profitable than releasing modding tools.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

You know, the announcement that there will be no mod tools would be fine if they'd ever bother to apologize for touting mod tools and failing to deliver in the past.

In any case, I'm happy to say that the announcement has zero effect on me, since I don't plan to buy another TW title any time soon. Hell, I'd need a new computer anyway. Good luck to those of you who do buy it, but I suspect you're in for the same old story.

[EgyptianNecrophiliac]

I think steam is to blame for no mod support. It allows developers to spoon feed us updates and dlc, which is much more profitable than releasing modding tools.

Agree. I suspect they've made a deliberate decision to not allow mods for S2TW, because of greed.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I think steam is to blame for no mod support. It allows developers to spoon feed us updates and dlc, which is much more profitable than releasing modding tools.

There are seveal (many?) games on Steam that allow modding, including games made by Valve, the company that created Steam.

[mic1402]

There are seveal (many?) games on Steam that allow modding, including games made by Valve, the company that created Steam.

yes that is correct. and CA have NEVER EVER, supported modding. it was just the fact that rome used text files and had more leaks in it then a sinking ship and people brought the knowledge they learned from rome to med2.

though before ETW it seemed they where ok with it. M2TW Kingdoms came with a unpacker and the starter thing for Med2 featured community mods. after ETW they have become much more hostile to modding.

[lars573]

Yes id have to agree its a big gamble from ca, rome2 would have been a much safer bet.
I wonder if theyre banking on big sales in japan itself as it surely would not be hard for sega to market it there.

Not unless they port it to the PS3 or the Wii. IE a platform that Japanese gamers will actually use.

[Togakure]

I would hazard to guess that the majority of the Japanese gaming market would prefer something more "exotic" from their point of view than a game based on their own history. I think they'd be especially sensitive to any historical inaccuracies too, particularly given that the producer is a westerner. Hence, I don't think the Japan would be one of CA's primary target markets with this one.

Though I'm not sure why they chose Shogun 2 over Rome 2, they'll be able to re-use much of the historical research they did for either of the original games in a re-make. This allows them to focus resources on other aspects of the game. This is a win for those of us too, who enjoyed either of the original games, provided the results of said focus are significant.

[Skullheadhq]

historical research

Rome (2)

pick one.

[pevergreen]

pick one.

Yes, I recall Augustus recording his feelings on fighting a united gaul front with Arcani.

[Skullheadhq]

Yes, I recall Augustus recording his feelings on fighting a united gaul front with Arcani.

Not even mentioning flaming pigs who could run for miles and scare elephants and barbarians hurling heads, or the Naked fanatics who weren't even naked or the Mummy Returns egyptians or the .... ( I could go on for ages)

Didn't CA want to reduce the number of different units to 30, because the ****heads might get confused with 31 units. And since you can't mod, you have to stick with the 30 units or buy 3,5 units for 10 bucks. Welcome to the new era, welcome to steam!

[Cute Wolf]

well, in fact, many of us enjoy some vanilla experience, but hate some other vanilla... me for example, I loved play my Napoleon TW even on vanilla, as they have excellent things to be portayed, and actually make up for some good feelings and balance... but I said vanilla ETW is total worthless... TOTAL WORTHLESS... (unless with Darth Mod, made them suddenly turned to be awesome)

[Tuuvi]

I liked vanilla RTW, but I got bored of it in just a few months and once I discovered EB vanilla RTW completely lost its appeal.

It seems to me with CA's attitude lately is that they realize they made mistakes and they would like to fix them in Shogun 2. If that really is the case and it's not just hype then maybe Shogun 2 won't need modding to make it a good game. Modding would still be nice though. AFAIK CA hasn't said that it won't be modable, just that there won't be mod support, so I'm really hoping that maybe it will still be modable. As someone else (I don't remember who and I'm too lazy to read through the thread) already pointed out there hasn't really ever been mod support for TW games, so maybe there's still hope.

[Skullheadhq]

It seems to me with CA's attitude lately is that they realize they made mistakes and they would like to fix them in Shogun 2.

Yeaah right....

maybe Shogun 2 won't need modding to make it a good game.

A diamond doesn't need sharpening, that doesn't say the diamond is better off, it can always get better.

AFAIK CA hasn't said that it won't be modable, just that there won't be mod support

MODDABLE means MOD ABLE
The fact that you can mod means that you can make new units and dump them on the internet. This will mean that less and less people will buy their trashy, overpriced DLC. That means less profits. CA isn't a charity, but a commercial company, this means they will maximize profits. And if mods prevent them from gaining some extra bucks they will eliminate EVERY possiblity to make mods. I won't be surprised if modders get sued in a not to distant future thanks to the rise of DLC. Activision is actively doing this RIGHT NOW. They gave a cease and disist order on a mod of King's Quest that was being developed 10 years already. That means they had to stop and just throw away their all of their hard-done labour or face a constant tide of overpayed Activision lawyer in a frequency of a Zombie Invasion because people might play this FREE mod instead of Activisions new PAYED-FOR products. Mods are hostile to their ability to make money, because they are better AND free, and that threat should be eliminated according to them.

[Cute Wolf]

Activision is actively doing this RIGHT NOW. They gave a cease and disist order on a mod of King's Quest

ohh... I hope they don't do that with EB or I'll invade their headquarters with my angry Saka Horse Archers!!!
could you gave a link please?

[Skullheadhq]

ohh... I hope they don't do that with EB or I'll invade their headquarters with my angry Saka Horse Archers!!!
could you gave a link please?

http://kotaku.com/5482221/activision...uest-extension

[ReluctantSamurai]

The fact that you can mod means that you can make new units and dump them on the internet. This will mean that less and less people will buy their trashy, overpriced DLC. That means less profits. CA isn't a charity, but a commercial company, this means they will maximize profits. And if mods prevent them from gaining some extra bucks they will eliminate EVERY possiblity to make mods.

I've said this before...if I was smart enough to advise CA on the best avenue to take, I'd be making money with my own company. That said, I hold up Bioware as an example of how to do things, IMHO. I haven't played DA, so I don't know the latest Bioware policies, but Baldurs Gate & NWN had a thriving mod community, and actually increased interest and sales form what I've seen. I just know that I was more willing to buy Bioware products, first because they put out great games, and second, because I knew I'd be playing the mods for a long, long time.

[Cute Wolf]

http://kotaku.com/5482221/activision...uest-extension

oh .... well let's check out who was their leading board of managers, and maybe you can found something interesting..... We need someone from the mod team bought their stock

[Skullheadhq]

I knew I'd be playing the mods for a long, long time.

This is nice for you, but not for the developers, they HATE it when you play a game for a long time. They want you to play the game for a week or two and then move on to their next title.

this is a wonderful comment about the KQ mod from the comment section

Bobby Kotick: "I feel the hunger, bring me a baby, so that I can consume it's flesh!"
Slave: "Lord, we're out of Babies! You've eaten them all!"
Bobby Kotick: "You imbecile! Why didn't you order more? Then bring me ten sweet puppies, so that I may crush them with my feet!"
Slave: "Master, I'm terribly sorry, but you've crushed all our puppies last saturday! Don't you remember?"
Bobby Kotick: "And I suppose we're out of new born kittens to drown as well?"
Slave: "That appears to be so. But there is this group of fans, who're creating a free sequel to King's Quest..."
Bobby Kotick: "King's Quest?"
Slave: "An old game by Sierra. It was some kind of adventure game series. We acquired the rights to it, when we merged with Vivendi.."
Bobby Kotick: "Ahh... Now I remember. And they want to create a free sequel to it? Tell me, what does the word 'free' mean? It's most curious and I've never heard it before..."
Slave: "They do not want to charge any money for it!"
Bobby Kotick: "Whoever would want to do that? Are they mad? But of course they can not be allowed to do so. Eventhough we will never make a sequel to the series.."
Slave: "Well, we were thinking about creating rythm action game for Xbox Live with the IP..."
Bobby Kotick: "Really? What a great idea... Anyway, they can't be allowed to use what is rightfully mine. I will tear their hearts out of their chests and consume them, while they're still beating.."
Slave: "I have a better idea! Let them live but forbid them to work on the project they've sunken eight years of their lives into. This will not only crush their spirit and destroy their dream, but that of thousands of supporters and fans as well! It will also remind everbody of our power!"
Bobby Kotick: "Ahhh.. Now I remember why I suffer you to live. You're not so stupid after all. Yess... Go to our legal department and tell them to crush those so called fans souls..."

[Swoosh So]

Theres no doubt that the inability to mod shogun 2 totalwar will reduce my enjoyment of the campaign. and im sure many totalwar gamers feel the same. In fact one of the biggest things for me in the campaigns was to download a mod that had features i wanted to see in the game. I worry the normal campaign will be too bland to hold my interest.
The question is do we trust ca to deliver an out of the box great campaign?
I remeber playing the long road mod for mtw2 it was like a different game altogether better more interesting and felt like it was made by a gamer... The only campaigns that were really any good were the kingdoms campaigns imo but even they lack the quality that the modders bring to their campaigns.

[Cute Wolf]

yeah, I hope that Shogun 2 should have the quality at least as good as Vanilla Napoleon..... the best pure Vanilla campaign after Kingdoms Crusade....

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I think I'd like to repeat myself and point out that Steam is not the problem with moddability, and furthermore, wise developers (such as Valve) encourage modding communities. Someone playing mods for a game won't skip the sequel unless the sequel is worse (or less moddable) than the last game in the series. It's a silly argument; people still bought Rome even though there were (are) dozens of quality and even huge mods for Medieval.

[pevergreen]

Theres a difference between the fan made mod and modding on TW games. TW Games require you to own the game. SEGA have made a sale.

It sounds that the mod would not require the base game.

They will not support modding, but they didn't really for ETW/NTW, so no big changes. Someone will create a modding tool, and we may be able to edit things. I fear that not on the scales of EB though.

[ReluctantSamurai]

This is nice for you, but not for the developers, they HATE it when you play a game for a long time. They want you to play the game for a week or two and then move on to their next title

I may play the game for a long time (I still play the original Baldurs Gate Trilogy), but that doesn't mean I won't plunk down the cash for new releases. What I'm saying is that because I got a lot of entertaining game-play out of a particular release, I'm much more inclined to continue as a customer, so I agree with Alexander's take........

Theres a difference between the fan made mod and modding on TW games. TW Games require you to own the game. SEGA have made a sale.

I'm not sure I understand this. Don't most modded games require you to have the original? All the ones I play do

[drone]

I'm not sure I understand this. Don't most modded games require you to have the original? All the ones I play do

From what I can tell in Skullheadhq's link, Activision is suing the "mod" group for hijacking the King's Quest IP rights. It is not a mod they were making, it is a new game, they wanted to make a sequel. When the rights were owned by Vivendi, apparently Vivendi didn't care. But Activision owns the rights now, and does care. Maybe they want to revisit the IP and create a sequel themselves? Who knows. Activision is in the right here, but it shouldn't affect true mods or mod/DLC conflict. The lawsuit is more along the lines of what Games Workshop does.

[Skullheadhq]

From what I can tell in Skullheadhq's link, Activision is suing the "mod" group for hijacking the King's Quest IP rights. It is not a mod they were making, it is a new game, they wanted to make a sequel. When the rights were owned by Vivendi, apparently Vivendi didn't care. But Activision owns the rights now, and does care. Maybe they want to revisit the IP and create a sequel themselves? Who knows. Activision is in the right here, but it shouldn't affect true mods or mod/DLC conflict. The lawsuit is more along the lines of what Games Workshop does.

Vivendi gave them the rights to make this mod sequel. ON PAPER. Just like Arsenal of Democracy got the rights from Paradox, and they (mod-devs) asked money for it. If they would have taken it to court Activision would be laughed out of court, but volonteers are in no position to fight the lawyer unslaught from Activision.

[drone]

Vivendi gave them the rights to make this mod sequel. ON PAPER. Just like Arsenal of Democracy got the rights from Paradox, and they (mod-devs) asked money for it. If they would have taken it to court Activision would be laughed out of court, but volonteers are in no position to fight the lawyer unslaught from Activision.

Vivendi did not give them the rights, they gave them a non-commercial license. The rights still belong to whoever owns Sierra's IP, and that is now Activision. It sucks, but that's life. Vivendi only gave them the license after much wailing, they could have killed the project themselves, so it has always been on borrowed time. Phoenix Online should have bought the IP rights from Vivendi in the first place.

Of course, if we had proper copyright time-limits, King's Quest would be in the public domain now, but that discussion is for the Backroom.

[Tuuvi]

A diamond doesn't need sharpening, that doesn't say the diamond is better off, it can always get better.

True, when I said "good game" I meant enjoyable for more than a couple months. I'll be really disappointed if Shogun 2 isn't moddable just like everyone else.

MODDABLE means MOD ABLE
The fact that you can mod means that you can make new units and dump them on the internet. This will mean that less and less people will buy their trashy, overpriced DLC. That means less profits. CA isn't a charity, but a commercial company, this means they will maximize profits. And if mods prevent them from gaining some extra bucks they will eliminate EVERY possiblity to make mods. I won't be surprised if modders get sued in a not to distant future thanks to the rise of DLC. Activision is actively doing this RIGHT NOW. They gave a cease and disist order on a mod of King's Quest that was being developed 10 years already. That means they had to stop and just throw away their all of their hard-done labour or face a constant tide of overpayed Activision lawyer in a frequency of a Zombie Invasion because people might play this FREE mod instead of Activisions new PAYED-FOR products. Mods are hostile to their ability to make money, because they are better AND free, and that threat should be eliminated according to them.

I was just trying to be optimistic.