Combat in the Med II engine

[antisocialmunky]

The cavalry loses charging power in EB 1 too, just compare an exhausted cataphract to a fresh one.

It doens't make much of a difference if the infantry is also exhausted.

[Apázlinemjó]

If someone barely can hold a shield, because he is so tired, why do you expect him to withstand a cataphract charge?

[antisocialmunky]

If someone barely can hold a shield, because he is so tired, why do you expect him to withstand a cataphract charge?

By tapping into SECRET HIDDEN POWER that they only get when they see their friends get beat up and or killed? Haven't you watched DBZ?

[Apázlinemjó]

By tapping into SECRET HIDDEN POWER that they only get when they see their friends get beat up and or killed? Haven't you watched DBZ?

I forgot it, sorry. :( We need moar anime-ish units! :D

[Julianus]

If someone barely can hold a shield, because he is so tired, why do you expect him to withstand a cataphract charge?

In this case he will almost inevitably flee as soon as he catches the mere sight of the enemy's kataphractoi...
What I question is the usual practice in EB that you can ultimately rout a full-strength, fresh, and high-spirited infantry unit by repeatedly charging INTO their ranks and then disengaging. Because I believe an unsuccessful charge, i.e. one withstood by the opposite side, should does more harm to the charging cavalry then to the infantry being charged, and disengaging in this case should be a most difficult task.

[vartan]

In this case he will almost inevitably flee as soon as he catches the mere sight of the enemy's kataphractoi...
What I question is the usual practice in EB that you can ultimately rout a full-strength, fresh, and high-spirited infantry unit by repeatedly charging INTO their ranks and then disengaging. Because I believe an unsuccessful charge, i.e. one withstood by the opposite side, should does more harm to the charging cavalry then to the infantry being charged, and disengaging in this case should be a most difficult task.

I've heard that disengaging in M2TW causes vast casualties. I hope this is the case. It would mean you'd only use cav at the right moment. Also, in EB, as it is, you have charge-reflection phenomena, so you do sometimes lose half your regiment of cav when you charge into rear of a unit. Strange stuff.

[Cute Wolf]

medieval 2 system indeed shown great realistic behaviour in cavalry warfare, but the bad side was just one, they kill (in supposedly prolonged melee, not chargin time) and got killed too quickly

[vartan]

medieval 2 system indeed shown great realistic behaviour in cavalry warfare, but the bad side was just one, they kill (in supposedly prolonged melee, not chargin time) and got killed too quickly

That's perfect!

[Apázlinemjó]

In this case he will almost inevitably flee as soon as he catches the mere sight of the enemy's kataphractoi...
What I question is the usual practice in EB that you can ultimately rout a full-strength, fresh, and high-spirited infantry unit by repeatedly charging INTO their ranks and then disengaging. Because I believe an unsuccessful charge, i.e. one withstood by the opposite side, should does more harm to the charging cavalry then to the infantry being charged, and disengaging in this case should be a most difficult task.

In that case answer the exploit with exploit, charge toward the cavalry with your infantry, you will lose less men and make more damage against the cavalry.

[Cambyses]

Unless the EB team are able to make major changes, Im afraid it really isnt perfect. Mostly because a head on cavalry charge in every M2TW mod Ive ever played can wipe out 50% of any infantry unit it connects with in 3-5 seconds. Its true cavalry left in melee do die quickly, and charge/withdraw is very costly in terms of numbers. So a new tactic of hitting any unit with two or three units of cavalry at once and, literally, totally annihiliating them is the way forward. Cavalry and artillery rule the battlefield in M2TW.

RTW is much better in that respect. Of course there are also a great many things that M2TW does better than RTW - but personally I would not put "realism of cavalry" on that list.

[bobbin]

This is actually easily rectified via statting, its just that most mods (at least those I've played) seem to like stronger charges.

[Rolling Thunder]

One thing the Medieval II engine does well is model cavalry behaviour. Getting a charge is difficult, they're more powerful in melee and when they do hit home, it's like being smashed with a sledgehammer. Oh, and trying to countercharge with infantry gets you killed. So pretty damn realistic there - a man with a 12 foot lance is going to deliver a hell of a lot of damage to any infantry formation before they can hope to strike back.
The 'Realism' mod for Medievall II, Stainless Steel Real Recruitment/Real Combat, actually buffed a lot of the charge values for the knights and other units and did a lot of splendid work in general.

Pikes in vanilla ME:2 suck, but with proper modding they work great.
However, part of this modding requires removing the secondary weapon, as in Medieval II the tendency for units to switch to secondary's is far too great for them to be useful in a melee. However, this actually makes them less rigid as you don't have to obssessively maintain the phalanx formation.

[vartan]

This is actually easily rectified via statting, its just that most mods (at least those I've played) seem to like stronger charges.

It's like with the more volume-less fidelity in music production in the past decade and half. Or like Hollywood with 300 and Co. The mods would like to appeal to a greater audience (i.e. the greater, not lesser part of the teen/20-something male audience), hence the stronger charges. They aren't that much stronger anyway. CA already used this tactics in vanilla, so it's just keeping those ridiculously strong charges. Wish there was an activism campaign against these strong charges in mods in the TW series...