Some queries regarding EB's units...

[Rolling Thunder]

I admire your looking at the bigger picture, but this is a real time tactics game, not an RTS. Everything matters. You need to have something to do in such close-quarter-combat situations. In fact, the current system is limited. A tertiary weapon combat system would be more preferable (and what I seek to implement in my battle engine). Look at the Armenian Late Bodyguard for instance (Hai Zoravar): You will notice that the bodyguard hold a lance, a mace, and a sword. Which one can't they use? The sword. How unfortunate.

Is there any way to make the soldiers bunch together any more in the phalanx, so that they can focus on fighting 'into' the enemy rather than spreading out like they tend to (somewhat unrealistically) do in the Rome Engine?

[vartan]

Is there any way to make the soldiers bunch together any more in the phalanx, so that they can focus on fighting 'into' the enemy rather than spreading out like they tend to (somewhat unrealistically) do in the Rome Engine?

Yes. Understand that what you are experiencing is the infamous phalanx bug, wherein you have a phalanx (usually guard off, sometimes with guard on) whose one half is attacking, and whose rear half is lagging. Or any variation of this breakage. Alexander update of the engine (1.5 to 1.9) did a lot to rectify this. Keeping guard on whilst attacking also does the trick for the most part.

This also tends to make them under-perform vs. light units, especially axemen or falxmen.

And quite unfairly so indeed.

[Intranetusa]

check out my post where I tweaked some of the unit values:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...tc-suggestions

For sarissa phalangites, I reduced the shield value by two (from 5 to 3) and added 1 defense point value.

[Rolling Thunder]

check out my post where I tweaked some of the unit values:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...tc-suggestions

For sarissa phalangites, I reduced the shield value by two (from 5 to 3) and added 1 defense point value.

Why add the defence point value? I mean, they're meant to be vulnerable to attack. They're pikemen.


Armour Values Problems:

While playing EB, I've found what appear to my untrained eyes to be serious discrepancies with the armour values of most 'heavy' units on the battlefield.

Firstly, let us examine the Hoplati. These men wear a linenthorax, bronze greaves and a Corinthian helm. Solid, reasonable armour that stands at '11' armour value.

However, if we examine a Cohors Reformata (Post-MarianLegionary Cohort), we see something truly wrong with the armour value. Clad in a shirt of heavy chainmail and a bronze helmet, and he only has an armour value of 10!?

This becomes even more strange when examining or Polybian Triarii, who wear a bronze helm, heavy chain armour and a single bronze greave, and yet for some reason only have a mere armour value of '10', compared to the Hoplite's 11, despite the fact that the Hoplite's linen armour is vastly inferior to the chain armour of the Triarii!

Even comparing the Cohors Reformata with the Triarii, we see that the Cohors, despite lacking the single bronze greave of the Triarii, has the same armour value as the more heavily-armoured Triarii.

This becomes even more strange when we compare the Babylonian Heavy Spearmen, armoured in iron scale mail curiasses and bronze helmets. 9 armour. 9 armour for a heavy scale cuirass and a bronze helmet? A levy phalangite has 8, for a bronze helm and a linen cuirass?

It almost seems like the more armour a unit wears on the model, the less protection it offers!

[Rolling Thunder]

Bump, could someone answer my questions?

[Apázlinemjó]

Bump, could someone answer my questions?

To answer your question with a short sentence: balancing the units was more important than giving armour values by skins. I agree this unit stat modding policy of EB team.

[vartan]

To answer your question with a short sentence: balancing the units was more important than giving armour values by skins. I agree this unit stat modding policy of EB team.

Can you translate that into everyday American English please? As far as I know, the EB team uses the WYSWIG system where they give each type of armour a certain value (albeit rarely inconsistently ). What does 'giving armour values by skins' mean?

[Rolling Thunder]

To answer your question with a short sentence: balancing the units was more important than giving armour values by skins. I agree this unit stat modding policy of EB team.

And thus realism (and thus historical accuracy) was not so much discarded as it was kicked down a giant well by the king of Sparta.

There are a few balancing adjustments to my knowledge (barbarian units get +1 armour, phalangites get reduced armour and increased shield), but beyond that armour and shield stats are consistently based on equipment. In this particular case: the EB team considers linothorax to be almost as good chainmail, and the standard hoplite wears leather or a linothorax reinforced with metal plates.

I must politely disagree with the EB team. The linenthorax is excellent armour - equal or superior to the bronze muscle cuirass that is replaced - but it is neither as covering nor as effective as chainmail. Unless it is literally immune to sword slashes as chainmail is, highly resistant to thrusts and blunt trauma as well, then it is, put simply, not as good as chainmail. Leather armour isn't even as effective as padded armour (unless reinforced with plates).