Results 1 to 30 of 41

Thread: Some queries regarding EB's units...

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Re: Some queries regarding EB's units...

    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    I admire your looking at the bigger picture, but this is a real time tactics game, not an RTS. Everything matters. You need to have something to do in such close-quarter-combat situations. In fact, the current system is limited. A tertiary weapon combat system would be more preferable (and what I seek to implement in my battle engine). Look at the Armenian Late Bodyguard for instance (Hai Zoravar): You will notice that the bodyguard hold a lance, a mace, and a sword. Which one can't they use? The sword. How unfortunate.
    Is there any way to make the soldiers bunch together any more in the phalanx, so that they can focus on fighting 'into' the enemy rather than spreading out like they tend to (somewhat unrealistically) do in the Rome Engine?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Some queries regarding EB's units...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
    Is there any way to make the soldiers bunch together any more in the phalanx, so that they can focus on fighting 'into' the enemy rather than spreading out like they tend to (somewhat unrealistically) do in the Rome Engine?
    Yes. Understand that what you are experiencing is the infamous phalanx bug, wherein you have a phalanx (usually guard off, sometimes with guard on) whose one half is attacking, and whose rear half is lagging. Or any variation of this breakage. Alexander update of the engine (1.5 to 1.9) did a lot to rectify this. Keeping guard on whilst attacking also does the trick for the most part.
    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    This also tends to make them under-perform vs. light units, especially axemen or falxmen.
    And quite unfairly so indeed.
    EB Online Founder | Website
    Former Projects:
    - Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack

    - Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
    - EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
    - Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)

  3. #3
    Member Member Intranetusa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    1,247

    Default Re: Some queries regarding EB's units...

    check out my post where I tweaked some of the unit values:

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...tc-suggestions

    For sarissa phalangites, I reduced the shield value by two (from 5 to 3) and added 1 defense point value.
    "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind...but there is one thing that science cannot accept - and that is a personal God who meddles in the affairs of his creation."
    -Albert Einstein




  4. #4

    Default Re: Some queries regarding EB's units...

    Quote Originally Posted by Intranetusa View Post
    check out my post where I tweaked some of the unit values:

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...tc-suggestions

    For sarissa phalangites, I reduced the shield value by two (from 5 to 3) and added 1 defense point value.

    Why add the defence point value? I mean, they're meant to be vulnerable to attack. They're pikemen.


    Armour Values Problems:

    While playing EB, I've found what appear to my untrained eyes to be serious discrepancies with the armour values of most 'heavy' units on the battlefield.

    Firstly, let us examine the Hoplati. These men wear a linenthorax, bronze greaves and a Corinthian helm. Solid, reasonable armour that stands at '11' armour value.

    However, if we examine a Cohors Reformata (Post-MarianLegionary Cohort), we see something truly wrong with the armour value. Clad in a shirt of heavy chainmail and a bronze helmet, and he only has an armour value of 10!?

    This becomes even more strange when examining or Polybian Triarii, who wear a bronze helm, heavy chain armour and a single bronze greave, and yet for some reason only have a mere armour value of '10', compared to the Hoplite's 11, despite the fact that the Hoplite's linen armour is vastly inferior to the chain armour of the Triarii!

    Even comparing the Cohors Reformata with the Triarii, we see that the Cohors, despite lacking the single bronze greave of the Triarii, has the same armour value as the more heavily-armoured Triarii.

    This becomes even more strange when we compare the Babylonian Heavy Spearmen, armoured in iron scale mail curiasses and bronze helmets. 9 armour. 9 armour for a heavy scale cuirass and a bronze helmet? A levy phalangite has 8, for a bronze helm and a linen cuirass?

    It almost seems like the more armour a unit wears on the model, the less protection it offers!
    Last edited by Rolling Thunder; 07-12-2010 at 17:19.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Some queries regarding EB's units...

    Bump, could someone answer my questions?

  6. #6
    πολέμαρχος Member Apázlinemjó's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sopianae
    Posts
    683

    Default Re: Some queries regarding EB's units...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
    Bump, could someone answer my questions?
    To answer your question with a short sentence: balancing the units was more important than giving armour values by skins. I agree this unit stat modding policy of EB team.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Finished essays: The Italian Wars (1494-1559), The siege of Buda (1686), The history of Boius tribe in the Carpathian Basin, Hungarian regiments' participation in the Austro-Prussian-Italian War in 1866, The Mithridatic Wars, Xenophon's Anabasis, The Carthagian colonization
    Skipped essays: Serbian migration into the Kingdom of Hungary in the 18th century, The Order of Saint John in the Kingdom of Hungary

  7. #7

    Default Re: Some queries regarding EB's units...

    Quote Originally Posted by Apázlinemjó View Post
    To answer your question with a short sentence: balancing the units was more important than giving armour values by skins. I agree this unit stat modding policy of EB team.
    Can you translate that into everyday American English please? As far as I know, the EB team uses the WYSWIG system where they give each type of armour a certain value (albeit rarely inconsistently ). What does 'giving armour values by skins' mean?
    EB Online Founder | Website
    Former Projects:
    - Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack

    - Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
    - EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
    - Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)

  8. #8

    Default Re: Some queries regarding EB's units...

    Quote Originally Posted by Apázlinemjó View Post
    To answer your question with a short sentence: balancing the units was more important than giving armour values by skins. I agree this unit stat modding policy of EB team.
    And thus realism (and thus historical accuracy) was not so much discarded as it was kicked down a giant well by the king of Sparta.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    There are a few balancing adjustments to my knowledge (barbarian units get +1 armour, phalangites get reduced armour and increased shield), but beyond that armour and shield stats are consistently based on equipment. In this particular case: the EB team considers linothorax to be almost as good chainmail, and the standard hoplite wears leather or a linothorax reinforced with metal plates.
    I must politely disagree with the EB team. The linenthorax is excellent armour - equal or superior to the bronze muscle cuirass that is replaced - but it is neither as covering nor as effective as chainmail. Unless it is literally immune to sword slashes as chainmail is, highly resistant to thrusts and blunt trauma as well, then it is, put simply, not as good as chainmail. Leather armour isn't even as effective as padded armour (unless reinforced with plates).
    Last edited by Rolling Thunder; 07-12-2010 at 21:02.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO