Islamic group to build mosque adjacent to ground zero

**Beskar** · 08-04-2010, 03:09

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Show me a mosque closer to Ground Zero, and show me that it was constructed after 9/11/01. Until then, be as dismissive as you want, they weren't your friends that died in there.

As that if that makes a huge difference. If I had family who died there, and there was an inter-faith of tolerance and progression being built nearby, I would think that is a good thing, by helping ensure such a tragedy never happens again.

**Don Corleone** · 08-04-2010, 03:17

Originally Posted by Beskar

As that if that makes a huge difference. If I had family who died there, and there was an inter-faith of tolerance and progression being built nearby, I would think that is a good thing, by helping ensure such a tragedy never happens again.

Can you read? There is no inter-faith center... "I" proposed that. They're building a mosque... not an inter-faith center. Try to keep up.

**Beskar** · 08-04-2010, 03:36

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

And I lost a friend & a high-school teammate that day. Don't you dare presume to lecture me on what's appropriate.

I can sprout similar arguments if I wanted, but they are based on nothing. This whole thing is sensationalism, especially the site is 1) Already there, just getting rebuilt. 2) There is a closer site. etc.

**Don Corleone** · 08-04-2010, 03:47

Originally Posted by Beskar

I can sprout similar arguments if I wanted, but they are based on nothing. This whole thing is sensationalism, especially the site is 1) Already there, just getting rebuilt. 2) There is a closer site. etc.

Again, where are these oft-cited mosques at Ground Zero?

As for my "arguments based on nothing", this is my friend, Jim Greenleaf. On the morning of September 11th, Jim, a relatively newlywed fellow, went to his job at the World Trade Center, and I guess you can fill in the blanks. I played highschool football with Jim and admired him greatly. His wife, his family and his friends miss him terribly. Now, while you might think its hip and cool to drop the "Get over it" line repeatedly, I personally don't want a memorial to the people that killed him built on his grave.

So, you'll have to forgive me if I don't applaud your cool, snarky routine.

**miotas** · 08-04-2010, 04:02

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

As for my "arguments based on nothing", this is my friend, Jim Greenleaf. On the morning of September 11th, Jim, a relatively newlywed fellow, went to his job at the World Trade Center, and I guess you can fill in the blanks. I played highschool football with Jim and admired him greatly. His wife, his family and his friends miss him terribly. Now, while you might think its hip and cool to drop the "Get over it" line repeatedly, I personally don't want a memorial to the people that killed him built on his grave.

So, you'll have to forgive me if I don't applaud your cool, snarky routine.

Ok then, what right do you have to deny a place of worship and memorial to the families of the muslim victims in the 9/11 attacks?

**PanzerJaeger** · 08-04-2010, 05:11

Originally Posted by miotas

Ok then, what right do you have to deny a place of worship and memorial to the families of the muslim victims in the 9/11 attacks?

There are hundreds of such places in New York already. Problem solved!

Originally Posted by Yaseikhaan

Do you think American muslims cheered when they witnessed the events?

Yes, some did.

**Beskar** · 08-04-2010, 05:27

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

As for my "arguments based on nothing", this is my friend, Jim Greenleaf. On the morning of September 11th, Jim, a relatively newlywed fellow, went to his job at the World Trade Center, and I guess you can fill in the blanks. I played highschool football with Jim and admired him greatly. His wife, his family and his friends miss him terribly. Now, while you might think its hip and cool to drop the "Get over it" line repeatedly, I personally don't want a memorial to the people that killed him built on his grave.

Actually, I wasn't attempting to be 'hip and cool', I was actually not being bigoted.

Seriously "I don't want a memorial to the people that killed him built on his grave." where is that even coming from?

We got from "Re-building a Islamic Prayer House two blocks away" to "Mosque Ground Zero" to "Building a Memorial for Muslim Matyrs on my Friends Grave". Where is it going to end? Are you going to take it to hold a sixth of the worlds popular (who are muslims) personally responsible for his death? Are you going to kick out all Muslims from America? When does your rationality begin to kick in?

If you realised how absurd your statements are, you wouldn't even be bothering to argue with me. Lemur and now Yaseikhaan have now provided the source for the Mosques closer than two-blocks away.

I am going to bow out, as Yaseikhaan simply put it best:

Maybe I'm being harsh, but having a loved one die in 9/11 does not give one free reign to irrationality. Terrorists committed the attacks. To impose penalty on every other member of the broad umbrella of Islam is absurd and spiteful. Do they feel agony every time they see a Muslim, or a mosque? Does it bite at them that Islam is allowed to be practiced, because of the actions of people a world away who bear nearly no similarity at all to those living in the states? Are Muslims in the United States not allowed to be involved in the 9/11 discussion? Do you think American muslims cheered when they witnessed the events? Do you think the relished the idea that people would suddenly treat them differently from then on, because of the actions of lunatics who's relation is in title only? 9/11 hurt Muslims too, and it is entirely within their dignity to share in the remembrance.

**Fragony** · 08-04-2010, 07:00

Less why not and more why do. At best they are finding respect for their religion more important than the feelings on the 3000 deaths. At worst, well youknowut I don't want to be boring. It doesn't take that much time to find out the ugly ties of the Cordoba foundation, try it for yourself

**Lemur** · 08-04-2010, 07:10

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

As for my "arguments based on nothing", this is my friend, Jim Greenleaf. On the morning of September 11th, Jim, a relatively newlywed fellow, went to his job at the World Trade Center, and I guess you can fill in the blanks.

Don, you know I love you, but where are you going with this bit of tear-jerking grandstanding? I was in NYC on 9/11; I heard it, saw it, and (most importantly) smelt it. Both me and Mrs. Lemur lost people we knew on that day. Does that give me some sort of free pass in this debate? Does that give my opinions more weight?

I think you're unintentionally lowering the tone. What about the Orgahs who weren't in NYC or DC on 9/11, or who didn't personally know someone who died? Do they get to debate too, or are they less worthy?

I'm not defending Beskar, and I'm not siding with any blame-America bullhockey, but I think playing the "I know somebody who died" card is using a tactical nuke to kill a fly.

P.S.: This group appears to be next door to the WTC site. They predate 9/11/01, although I'm not sure why that matters.

**Fragony** · 08-04-2010, 07:55

Of course your argument holds more weight if you know someone who died there, people don't want this because they know people who died there, they have more reason to be upset.

**PanzerJaeger** · 08-04-2010, 08:20

I think Don’s sentiments are exactly why this thing shouldn’t be put up. It deeply offends many of those who were close to people who died there. Although the shady organization behind it and the continual string of provocative actions give plenty of reasons why, it really does not matter. Why are these Muslims insistent on gross insensitivity when there are plenty of places to build a 13 story building in Manhattan? Are they so convinced of their own primacy that they are unwilling to simply change the location before construction has even commenced to forgo needlessly inflicting pain on people who have endured more than enough already?