New shogun2 details

[Swoosh So]

http://tv.esl.eu/de/vod/22344

Some presentation and a full shogun2 battle

[The Black Ship]

thanks for the link. Always have to laugh when you see developers play.

[Crazed Rabbit]

So, night battles are new to the series?

Also, fire arrows are upgrades? And used at night, in the rain?

Rock, paper, scissors strategy, and tactics is defined as matching your rock against their scissors.

Lots of talk about the graphics (and they did look nice) but nothing about AI.

CR

[Gregoshi]

What I liked from the battle video is how long the unit melee lasted. There was time for the cavalry to flank the enemy. They also stated during the battle that the weather will have an affect on combat. Yeah!

[Kagemusha]

Thanks for this bit of information Swoosh So!

[Swoosh So]

Hrd to take much from the video despite its length, i also was pleased with the duration of the combat of the melee units and was really pleased to see the units retain some sort of formation when they engaged in combat making a nice clean battle line. Really want to see a day battle now to see it in all its glory!

[drone]

Looks pretty. Not sure about the fire arrows, but it was nice that the main melee took a while to complete. The unit movement lines and fire arcs were a nice touch, were those in NTW?

[Nelson]

I really hope they don’t overdo the rock, paper, scissors thing. For example, if they let sword troops have some sort of inherent advantage over yari troops, that would be incorrect with no basis in Japanese history. If they just let the troops behave as they did in reality all will be well. Units need no artificial advantages or penalties versus one another.

The RPS idea only works in the most general sense. Otherwise we might just as well control little rocks, little sheets of paper and little pairs of scissors and chuck the history.

[A Nerd]

Can't see anything because of the fascination with night battles...

Perhaps they have some secrets they yet want to reveal!

I really hope they don’t overdo the rock, paper, scissors thing. For example, if they let sword troops have some sort of inherent advantage over yari troops, that would be incorrect with no basis in Japanese history. If they just let the troops behave as they did in reality all will be well. Units need no artificial advantages or penalties versus one another.

Perhaps the RPS is most sound when all units involved are green. Perhaps an experienced yari troop will have an advantage over a green sword troop? I always wanted CA to do something more with green vs. experienced troops rather than just a valor bonus.

[Swoosh So]

The rps system in shogun is what made it the best of the totalwar series in multiplayer, they should imo keep the base system they had. and try to fit the new units around that.
I think its absolutely critical that they make yari cav poor against swords and monks like they were in the first shogun but make them excellent vs cavalry and faster than any other cav unit.

[Tera]

That was a very nice demo. I think he had a much higher level army fight against the AI since basically he won the battle with the spear units in apparently hold formation. When the player was ready to rear the enemy line, the battle was already won.

Looking forward to next preview.

[Nelson]

I think its absolutely critical that they make yari cav poor against swords and monks like they were in the first shogun but make them excellent vs cavalry and faster than any other cav unit.

Why, Swoosh?

Why should yari cavalry be poor against sword armed troops as opposed to any other troops? Was there a battle where katana armed troops annihilated yari cavalry but heavy cav smashed the same sword soldiers? Any basis in fact for this idea? Was yari armed cav actually faster than archer cav?

I know the answer. We disagree about what we want the game to be. Fair enough. But do realize that what you propose makes the game less accurate and some fans want reality to trump fictional abilities.

[Sp00n]

Apart from being dark it looks great, wish they'd shown a day battle though but nice to see. Also pleased the melee lasted a while.

[O'Hea]

Why should yari cavalry be poor against sword armed troops as opposed to any other troops? Was there a battle where katana armed troops annihilated yari cavalry but heavy cav smashed the same sword soldiers? Any basis in fact for this idea? Was yari armed cav actually faster than archer cav?

Because if different units have nothing but superficial differences... they have nothing but superficial differences. This may be 'realistic' in the sense that historical samurai armies were made of mixed formations of individual warriors whose equipment and abilities varied greatly, but this makes for a supremely dull tactical system because most meaningful distinctions between soldiers and units would be effectively random (i.e., uncontrollable by and unknowable to the player). You'd basically be playing Europa Universalis with better visuals.

[Sp00n]

Why, Swoosh?

Why should yari cavalry be poor against sword armed troops as opposed to any other troops? Was there a battle where katana armed troops annihilated yari cavalry but heavy cav smashed the same sword soldiers? Any basis in fact for this idea? Was yari armed cav actually faster than archer cav?

I know the answer. We disagree about what we want the game to be. Fair enough. But do realize that what you propose makes the game less accurate and some fans want reality to trump fictional abilities.

From terms of MP balance Id like to see the Yari Cav stay as they were, it may not be historically accurate, but if we dont have some sort of balance between the infantry and cav units we'll get another game of one army tactics.
Shogun excelled at varied armies as most of the top players would change thier armies a lot and practice with different setups this is one of the reasons why the MP was so great as you were never quite sure what your oponent would bring.
I agree the first game's balance was pretty good and if they follow that blueprint and put the new units around it then I'll be happy.

Oh and don't forget the foyer :P