So how complete will the mod be before it is released to the public?

[Tuuvi]

This may have been asked/answered before, I don't know, but this forum needs some life breathed into it, so here it goes.

EB 1 was initially released as a beta, v 0.72, which was far from finished. Many factions were not complete, and some were barely playable. There were a lot of bugs and many, if not most, campaigns ended in CTD's. The EB team continued to work on the mod, while using the community's help in finding and fixing bugs and crashes. After a couple more years and the release of quite a few upgrades, the mod was finally declared finished, with the release of v 1.0.

So what I'm wondering is, will the EB team follow this same pattern with the release of EB 2, or will they wait until the mod is finished? I can see the pros and cons of each approach.

If the EB team releases a beta version, it will allow the community to become more actively involved with the development of the mod. We will be able to more fully see all of the features, etc. that the team is trying to implement and offer constructive criticism on them. And of course releasing a beta version would make it so people don't have to wait as long to play the mod.

But, it would be perfectly understandable if the EB team waited until the mod was completely finished to release it. EB is much more popular than it was in the days of the v 0.7x series, and so naturally has drawn more negative criticism. If EB 2 was released in a beta form, some people would probably not understand that the mod is still in development, and would attack the EB team for releasing something "crappy".

So to the EB team, what is your plan of action (if you're willing to share it )? And to those not on the team, what are your thoughts/suggestions?

[Arjos]

I understood that they're going to release the Gaza Campaign first (mini tutorial campaign set during the reigns of Antigonos Monophtalmos and Demetrios Poliorketes)...
So maybe Makedonia, Ptolemaioi and Seleukoi are going to be the three completed factions (I'm just speculating), this will give some bugs feedback from the comunity and at the same time distract people, so that the team may continue its work in peace XD

[Loverartis]

If the EB team releases a beta version, it will allow the community to become more actively involved with the development of the mod. We will be able to more fully see all of the features, etc. that the team is trying to implement and offer constructive criticism on them. And of course releasing a beta version would make it so people don't have to wait as long to play the mod.

In my opinion it might be a good idea, but maybe the mod isn't enough ready for a beta version.
We must always consider that the realization of this mod implies much time and perhaps somebody in the EB team is often busy (job, family...) to proceed with EBII regularly.

[Brennus]

I would much rather wait and see EBII released as a fully finished mod rather than as a beta. As Lignator suggests some people might not realise that a beta release isn't intended to be a fully completed mod and thus complain.

[anubis88]

Well, EB II will be released as some sort of beta. I mean, the team has stated for instance, that not all of the new factions may be in for the first release. Also, we know that the Romans will only get the Camilian army for the first release... If this kind of release isn't beta, then i dunno what is

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I have a feeling that the EB II team is a little smaller than the original as well so this might explain the somewhat "slower" progress. That said, although I am anxious as well, they should take their time and release it when they are ready, not because they feel rushed by the community. I wouldn't be surprised if the Gaza campaign was released around the holidays this year but I'm not holding my breath either.

[fightermedic]

Well, EB II will be released as some sort of beta. I mean, the team has stated for instance, that not all of the new factions may be in for the first release. Also, we know that the Romans will only get the Camilian army for the first release... If this kind of release isn't beta, then i dunno what is

well actually what your'e talking about is called an alpha ;)
beta = all features already implemented and only need bug fixing and balancing
sadly most games never really leave beta status :D as in beeing bug free engough to be called finished

[DaciaJC]

I am patient enough to wait for a full-fledged release. I have more than enough to occupy me at the moment.

[Tuuvi]

I'm hoping that the EB team releases a beta. I started playing when 0.74 was the current version, and even though there were a lot of CTD's and most factions were incomplete it was still a lot of fun. Also as I said in my OP the community was able to be more involved with the project, which was really cool.

[stratigos vasilios]

Wow you were playing at .074? Awesome. I got in around the release of 1.1, shows how new I am...

I guess I am pro beta based on my experiences waiting for another mod. The mod was not to be released to the public (in any form) until it was finished completely internally... but then it was leaked and that leaked version became the beta*. Since then the beta has been 'completed' by the public and the internal version is still yet to be released.

I would like to see the EBII beta, but only if the team thinks it is ready for a public release. Until then I'm more than happy to wait, and I kind of don't want to kill my grades by playing too much EB...

*There's more to the story, but for another time.

[Blxz]

*There's more to the story, but for another time.

You have piqued my interest. Care to elaborate?

[stratigos vasilios]

Well i probably shouldn't, but...

From my understanding, a bunch of people were working on a Restored Content Mod for Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2. Nothing was to be released until it's final version, a beta was made but was only circulated internally. I think due to a lack of progress and different view points the mod was leaked (I think it was at its 0.8 stage, so relatively close to completion) and the person who leaked it opened up a new forum inviting anyone and everyone who could help its progress. That's my interpretation, I hadn't bothered to read through all the forum pages explaining each sides argument, I was just keen on playing the mod!

If anyone wants to search it, Team Gizka was the original modders and Darth Stoney's crew continued it (I think).

[Raygereio]

Well i probably shouldn't, but...
If anyone wants to search it, Team Gizka was the original modders and Darth Stoney's crew continued it (I think).

That's not quite what happened. Team Gizka's leader who went by Dashus, or something like that, basically stopped working on the mod because he apparently got a girlfriend, or something. Not that big of deal in and of itself, but being a bit of a control freak the only copy of the mod's files was on his computer. Not getting anything done, modders soon started walking away from Gizka. People did constantly offer to finish or at least help Dashus, but now there was INTERNETDRAMA[/dramatic voice] involved and the guy refused all offers and said he would do anything on his own.
The restored content mod by Stoney, Zbyl, etc is no continuation of Gizka's beta but original work (as original as mod restoring deleted inactive content can be, that is). This despite Dashus' constant hilarious shrieks to the contrary.

[stratigos vasilios]

Apologies, that was my quick brief interpretations of that scenario. I didn't care where the mod came from, so long as it was finished ;-P

At which I've sucessfully played and finished, if I might add.

[Blxz]

stopped working on the mod because he apparently got a girlfriend,

An all too common occurence. Always amazes me how some people just totally ignore everything, friends included, while they have a girlfriend and only come crawling back once that girl breaks their heart because they became a loser with no life. Ahh well, let them make their mistakes...

[Olaf The Great]

I've been around since .72 too. I would like a Beta that's as finished as the 8x series, with all the major features put in, so we the community can give feedback and add our own mods and scripts to it since we know what the final package will be.

[BigTex]

Hopefully they will release it as a beta. Started playing on .72 and it was a much better game even then compared to the original rtw. If anything the beta release will drum up support for the mod and hopefully bring some new modders to the ranks.

[bobbin]

Some of the new factions will definitely not be in the first full release , we also have a list of units that will go in, which consists of about a third of all the currently concepted units.

Also we will most likely add a lot more script and trait wise as new versions come out.

[vartan]

I would much rather wait and see EBII released as a fully finished mod rather than as a beta. As Lignator suggests some people might not realise that a beta release isn't intended to be a fully completed mod and thus complain.

Any first release should be seen as a beta, to be honest. Think of it like a demo. If I release an indie game, I better be releasing it as a demo/beta first. The reason devs would do this is to gather feedback and research data. Not only does it "distract" people and what-have-you (that's irrelevant), the main point is that it makes the FINAL version of the game even better for the players. Hence it is to the player's advantage for the devs to opt for a beta, and in turn to the devs' advantage, as they're creating the game directed toward their player audience.

[Fluvius Camillus]

I am around since 0.8x with the good old Yuezhi faction. This beta lacked in some aspects, but the Makedonia game I played on it was perfectly playable and I loved it.

Edit: BTW congrats Lignator

~Fluvius

[Tuuvi]

Edit: BTW congrats Lignator

~Fluvius

Thank you

[Fluvius Camillus]

Thank you

Lol it is my birthday today!

~Fluvius

[vartan]

Lol it is my birthday today!

~Fluvius

Great. October 7 huh? Mine is tomorrow, on the 8th! Hurray for Libras.

[stratigos vasilios]

Great. October 7 huh? Mine is tomorrow, on the 8th! Hurray for Libras.

Boo! It has to be Scorpios FTW ;-)

[B-Wing]

Mine's on the 9th.

[Tuuvi]

Wow lots of October birthdays. Happy Birthday everyone!

[vartan]

Wow lots of October birthdays. Happy Birthday everyone!

Thanks ma Lignator!

[-Praetor-]

So to the EB team, what is your plan of action (if you're willing to share it )?

Yes of course we are willing to share. In fact, I believe this is a good time to share the following info:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The history of the Zipper.

The zipper had numerous 'inventors', the first of which was Elias Howe, who invented the sewing machine, and received a patent in 1851 for an 'Automatic, Continuous Clothing Closure.' Perhaps it was the success of his sewing machine which caused Elias not to pursue marketing his clothing closure.

In 1895, Mr. Whitcomb Judson (who also invented the 'Pneumatic Street Railway') marketed a 'Clasp Locker' a device similar to the 1851 Howe patent. Being first to market gave Whitcomb the credit of being the 'Inventor of the Zipper', However, his 1893 patent did not use the word zipper. The Chicago inventor's 'Clasp Locker' was a complicated hook-and-eye shoe fastener. Together with businessman Colonel Lewis Walker, Whitcomb launched the Universal Fastener Company to manufacture the new device. The clasp locker had its public debut at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair and met with little commercial success.

Swedish-born (who later immigrated to Canada), Gideon Sundback, an electrical engineer, was hired to work for the Universal Fastener Company. Good design skills and a marriage to the plant-manager's daughter Elvira Aronson led Sundback to the position of head designer at Universal. He was responsible for improving the far from perfect 'Judson C-curity Fastener.' Unfortunately, Sundback's wife died in 1911. The grieving husband busied himself at the design table and by December of 1913, he had designed the modern zipper. Gideon Sundback increased the number of fastening elements from four per inch to ten or eleven, had two facing-rows of teeth that pulled into a single piece by the slider, and increased the opening for the teeth guided by the slider. The patent for the 'Separable Fastener' was issued in 1917. Sundback also created the manufacturing machine for the new zipper. The 'S-L' or scrapless machine took a special Y-shaped wire and cut scoops from it, then punched the scoop dimple and nib, and clamped each scoop on a cloth tape to produce a continuous zipper chain. Within the first year of operation, Sundback's zipper-making machinery was producing a few hundred feet of fastener per day.

The popular 'zipper' name came from the B. F. Goodrich Company, when they decided to use Gideon's fastener on a new type of galoshes and renamed the device the zipper, the name that lasted. Boots and tobacco pouches with a zippered closure were the two chief uses of the zipper during its early years. It took twenty more years to convince the fashion industry to seriously promote the novel closure on garments.

In the 1930’s, a sales campaign began for children's clothing featuring zippers. The campaign praised zippers for promoting self-reliance in young children by making it possible for them to dress in self-help clothing. The zipper beat the button in the 1937 in the "Battle of the Fly," when French fashion designers raved over zippers in men's trousers. Esquire magazine declared the zipper the "Newest Tailoring Idea for Men" and among the zippered fly's many virtues was that it would exclude "The Possibility of Unintentional and Embarrassing Disarray."

The next big boost for the zipper came when zippers could open on both ends, as on jackets. Despite the limited successes, the amount of products with the zipper being produced weren't exactly vast. The United States Navy, however, placed an order for several thousand of the items, to be tailored onto certain uniforms, for interior pockets, trousers, and as the main closure for overcoats. This greatly enhanced the popularity of the zipper via footage of the events of World War 2, and the zipper subsequently became the main fixture on most articles of men's clothing.

[vartan]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Mediolanicus]

Yes of course we are willing to share. In fact, I believe this is a good time to share the following info:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The history of the Zipper.

The zipper had numerous 'inventors', the first of which was Elias Howe, who invented the sewing machine, and received a patent in 1851 for an 'Automatic, Continuous Clothing Closure.' Perhaps it was the success of his sewing machine which caused Elias not to pursue marketing his clothing closure.

In 1895, Mr. Whitcomb Judson (who also invented the 'Pneumatic Street Railway') marketed a 'Clasp Locker' a device similar to the 1851 Howe patent. Being first to market gave Whitcomb the credit of being the 'Inventor of the Zipper', However, his 1893 patent did not use the word zipper. The Chicago inventor's 'Clasp Locker' was a complicated hook-and-eye shoe fastener. Together with businessman Colonel Lewis Walker, Whitcomb launched the Universal Fastener Company to manufacture the new device. The clasp locker had its public debut at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair and met with little commercial success.

Swedish-born (who later immigrated to Canada), Gideon Sundback, an electrical engineer, was hired to work for the Universal Fastener Company. Good design skills and a marriage to the plant-manager's daughter Elvira Aronson led Sundback to the position of head designer at Universal. He was responsible for improving the far from perfect 'Judson C-curity Fastener.' Unfortunately, Sundback's wife died in 1911. The grieving husband busied himself at the design table and by December of 1913, he had designed the modern zipper. Gideon Sundback increased the number of fastening elements from four per inch to ten or eleven, had two facing-rows of teeth that pulled into a single piece by the slider, and increased the opening for the teeth guided by the slider. The patent for the 'Separable Fastener' was issued in 1917. Sundback also created the manufacturing machine for the new zipper. The 'S-L' or scrapless machine took a special Y-shaped wire and cut scoops from it, then punched the scoop dimple and nib, and clamped each scoop on a cloth tape to produce a continuous zipper chain. Within the first year of operation, Sundback's zipper-making machinery was producing a few hundred feet of fastener per day.

The popular 'zipper' name came from the B. F. Goodrich Company, when they decided to use Gideon's fastener on a new type of galoshes and renamed the device the zipper, the name that lasted. Boots and tobacco pouches with a zippered closure were the two chief uses of the zipper during its early years. It took twenty more years to convince the fashion industry to seriously promote the novel closure on garments.

In the 1930’s, a sales campaign began for children's clothing featuring zippers. The campaign praised zippers for promoting self-reliance in young children by making it possible for them to dress in self-help clothing. The zipper beat the button in the 1937 in the "Battle of the Fly," when French fashion designers raved over zippers in men's trousers. Esquire magazine declared the zipper the "Newest Tailoring Idea for Men" and among the zippered fly's many virtues was that it would exclude "The Possibility of Unintentional and Embarrassing Disarray."

The next big boost for the zipper came when zippers could open on both ends, as on jackets. Despite the limited successes, the amount of products with the zipper being produced weren't exactly vast. The United States Navy, however, placed an order for several thousand of the items, to be tailored onto certain uniforms, for interior pockets, trousers, and as the main closure for overcoats. This greatly enhanced the popularity of the zipper via footage of the events of World War 2, and the zipper subsequently became the main fixture on most articles of men's clothing.

This reminds me of the Bartix thread!