Trait Building?

[Gaiseric]

Looking at some of the threads and guides on the forums and the vices and virtues .pdf, I have a couple questions about trait building:

My strategy is to try and develop some great vice free governors, but first I need to know if governors die from old age in the course of the game?

The MTW guides mention that you can demolish and rebuild farms to build up your governors virtues. With reference to the above question, how feasible is this?

What levels of farms do you build up and demolish?

The .pdf says that to get the steward trait, you have to improve your farms by two levels from 0 to 40% or from 20% to 60% to trigger the trait. Does building 20% farms twice count?

What is the best way to get the magnificent steward trait other than through the passage of time?

Thanks:)

Edit: Forgot to ask: Can one man govern multiple regions?

[drone]

My strategy is to try and develop some great vice free governors, but first I need to know if governors die from old age in the course of the game?

Generals/governors die from old age, but by default they are replaced with a younger general with the same stats and VnVs. You can change this by running the game with the -green_generals switch, the replacement will be a fresh start. Can't remember if the title conveys in either case, or if you get the option to reassign on old age death.

The MTW guides mention that you can demolish and rebuild farms to build up your governors virtues. With reference to the above question, how feasible is this?

What levels of farms do you build up and demolish?

The .pdf says that to get the steward trait, you have to improve your farms by two levels from 0 to 40% or from 20% to 60% to trigger the trait. Does building 20% farms twice count?

Not sure about this one. I assume you can just build Improved Farmland I, destroy, rinse/lather/repeat. Never tried it, I'm usually to busy building up province infrastructure to spend the 2 extra years.

What is the best way to get the magnificent steward trait other than through the passage of time?

Keep building farm improvements.

Edit: Forgot to ask: Can one man govern multiple regions?

Nope, only one region per governor.

[Gaiseric]

Thank you very much for the quick reply!!! I am playing Ancient: Total War right now and just started getting back into this game. I'll do some tests with farms and governors in my next couple of campaigns and see how it turns out. I'll post the results on how the trait building goes in my campaigns, back here on this thread.

[Gaiseric]

Generals/governors die from old age, but by default they are replaced with a younger general with the same stats and VnVs. You can change this by running the game with the -green_generals switch, the replacement will be a fresh start. Can't remember if the title conveys in either case, or if you get the option to reassign on old age death.

Didnt mean to double post but I thought that I should check to see what the -green_generals switch is? How can I find out if Ancient:Total War uses this, and how do I restore it to default?

Thanks:)

[drone]

Didnt mean to double post but I thought that I should check to see what the -green_generals switch is? How can I find out if Ancient:Total War uses this, and how do I restore it to default?

The switches are built into the executable, so every mod should have the -green_generals capability. To run with it, right-click on the launch icon on your desktop, and select Properties. Under "Shortcut", you want to modify the "Target" line, add -green_generals inside the quotes after the Medieval_TW.exe. Hit OK to save, and then double-click the icon to launch the game.

[Gaiseric]

Thanks for Answering!!! That would have been the last place I would have looked for something that changes the game so much. Lol, good thing you replied when you did. You saved me a whole night of endless searching through the .txt files.

Its good to see that there is an option for replacements. MTW is such a great game!!! I'll build some governor traits for a few campaigns and maybe come back to this thread and add that line to my game.

[Gaiseric]

Sorry to double post again drone. Dont know if thats worse then starting a new thread in a dried up forum.

Anyway, I dont think that I will be able to use my governor strategy because I am having trouble recruiting loyal generals with decent acumen. The ones I have been getting lately have either one or the other. Other then handing out titles, what are some ways to improve a units\generals loyalty?

[drone]

The main methods of increasing loyalty are:

• Bestowing titles.
• Marrying princesses to the general (the incest vice is possible if the general has royal lineage).
• Keeping the general in close proximity to the faction leader. A general in the leader's stack gets loyalty pretty quickly, and cannot lead a revolt since the faction leader is always the commander of his stack. But keeping a general in the same province or within a couple of provinces from the leader helps.
• Increasing the Influence of the faction leader. This is key, a low Influence king is a prime target for a civil war.

[Gaiseric]

Ok, Thanks!!!

Does proximity raise loyalty or just reduce the chance of rebellion? I have been getting some 4 acumen generals but with only one loyalty. If I give them a title, it can bump their loyalty up to two. I would like to use these generals as governors, but I dont know how much I can depend on them even if my King is 1 province away. I am also unfamiliar with how to raise my kings influence?

I have tried using spies to give a trial to my low loyalty generals for treason. This is actually an easy way to increase spy valor early in the game. If the trial is successful, the low loyalty general will be executed and replaced with a random general, and the spy gains valor.

I think the quality of generals that are recruited in terms of loyalty and acumen in a game is random too. I have had some very successful early games and other early games where my generals were all poor quality. I am unsure if certain buildings can give any bonuses to the acumen and loyalty of the generals I recruit?

As far as trait building goes, In one of my better early games I was able to keep my governors vice free by leaving them out of stacks and at the same time build up their traits for the buildings I constructed. It was also interesting to notice that if you leave governors out of stacks they still can get good traits and good trait improvements. I haven't noticed any bad traits appearing in out of stack governors, but it was still early game. The kings traits must be global because for some reason I was able to build up my governors traits on the same province the king was in.

I'll keep trying to build up my governors and generals traits and reply to this thread on how it is going. Right now I am looking for good loyalty generals with at least 4 acumen to govern. My success at recruiting generals like this varies from between 1 in 10 to 1 in 20. It can be quite frustrating to go 10 to 20 turns in game, recruiting generals in each province, every turn, and still not have many qualified candidates. I am playing a country with a good economy and safe start position. I imagine it is very difficult to try to develop governors with some factions, although it does pay off if you are using the default settings, where generals are replaced by someone with the same traits and stats when they die. What strategies do you use for assigning and training governors?

[caravel]

Ok, Thanks!!!

Does proximity raise loyalty or just reduce the chance of rebellion? I have been getting some 4 acumen generals but with only one loyalty. If I give them a title, it can bump their loyalty up to two. I would like to use these generals as governors, but I dont know how much I can depend on them even if my King is 1 province away. I am also unfamiliar with how to raise my kings influence?

For governors, proximity has no bearing. The only proximity factors you need to consider is the distance of a province from the faction leader and keeping the most disloyal generals with otherwise good stats in the same province as the faction leader - this will prevent them revolting. A governor's loyalty doesn't factor into provincial loyalty. IIRC the only way a governor effects provincial loyalty is through the dread and piety stats. Higher dread = higher happiness (provincial loyalty) in the governed province, higher piety = higher happiness in in the governed province of the same religion / lower happines in the governed province of a different religion. So for example if you're the Almohads and invade Portugal, you want a high dread, low piety governor to keep order - he can be a temp governor until you've used other means to restore order (town watch, watch towers, brothel, church, spies, garrison size, converted the province, etc). Once the province is stable and you want to make money you can send an emissary to demote him and assign someone more suitable.

I have tried using spies to give a trial to my low loyalty generals for treason. This is actually an easy way to increase spy valor early in the game. If the trial is successful, the low loyalty general will be executed and replaced with a random general, and the spy gains valor.

Yes, this works but if your faction leader is already low influence the victim will be replaced with another low loyalty general. I tend to orchestrate the treason plots in combination with other influence boosting measures - i.e. a few invasions or a jihad/crusade.

I think the quality of generals that are recruited in terms of loyalty and acumen in a game is random too. I have had some very successful early games and other early games where my generals were all poor quality. I am unsure if certain buildings can give any bonuses to the acumen and loyalty of the generals I recruit?

All generals stats are based on the stats of the ruler with an added random factor. Loyalty in particular is based on the faction leader's influence. If you have a low influence faction leader, expect low loyalty generals. In the case of such a faction leader (i.e. a 0 - 3 influence leader) you can literally "train" yourself into a state of civil war - because all new units you train will be low loyalty. Once the number of disloyal generals outnumbers the loyal ones, civil war can erupt.

As far as trait building goes, In one of my better early games I was able to keep my governors vice free by leaving them out of stacks and at the same time build up their traits for the buildings I constructed. It was also interesting to notice that if you leave governors out of stacks they still can get good traits and good trait improvements. I haven't noticed any bad traits appearing in out of stack governors, but it was still early game. The kings traits must be global because for some reason I was able to build up my governors traits on the same province the king was in.

Yes leaving out of stack builds up vices/virtues for the governor, but personally I don't see it as worthwhile as not every general governs and some can progress on to worse vices while they are just sitting in a province. It does happen in time - many vices are related to treasury size as well.

I'll keep trying to build up my governors and generals traits and reply to this thread on how it is going. Right now I am looking for good loyalty generals with at least 4 acumen to govern. My success at recruiting generals like this varies from between 1 in 10 to 1 in 20. It can be quite frustrating to go 10 to 20 turns in game, recruiting generals in each province, every turn, and still not have many qualified candidates. I am playing a country with a good economy and safe start position. I imagine it is very difficult to try to develop governors with some factions, although it does pay off if you are using the default settings, where generals are replaced by someone with the same traits and stats when they die. What strategies do you use for assigning and training governors?

The random acumen of newly trained unit leaders is based on the faction leader's acumen. This is why the French in Early get lots of high acumen generals from the start and throughout the first king's lifespan.

-Edit: Drone has summed it up better than I could have.

[drone]

Now we are digging into the cobwebbed portion of my MTW memory, but here goes:

Does proximity raise loyalty or just reduce the chance of rebellion? I have been getting some 4 acumen generals but with only one loyalty. If I give them a title, it can bump their loyalty up to two. I would like to use these generals as governors, but I dont know how much I can depend on them even if my King is 1 province away. I am also unfamiliar with how to raise my kings influence?

Just to clarify, there are 2 flavors of "loyalty". One is the loyalty of your generals, this affects their bribe costs as well as their involvement in civil war plots. The other is province loyalty (happiness), below 100% can lead to local uprisings, below 120% leaves the province vulnerable to faction reemergences. A civil war (revolt of generals) is different than a province rebellion/uprising.

The following actions affect faction leader influence (I think this is the entire list):

• Losing two provinces, -1 influence
• Capturing two provinces, +1 influence
• Losing a crusade/jihad, -2 influence
• Successful crusade/jihad, +1 influence
• Relieving the siege on an ally, +1 influence
• Attacking an ally, -1 influence

I think the quality of generals that are recruited in terms of loyalty and acumen in a game is random too. I have had some very successful early games and other early games where my generals were all poor quality. I am unsure if certain buildings can give any bonuses to the acumen and loyalty of the generals I recruit?

Buildings do not affect acumen or loyalty of new generals, just the VnVs that get triggered from building them. When a unit is recruited, the general's attributes are a function of the faction leader's stats. A high influence tends to attract better generals. This is another reason why the leader's influence is so important, a low influence (3 or less?) can cripple an empire. Turtling can lead to low influence, since provinces are not being conquered.

As far as trait building goes, In one of my better early games I was able to keep my governors vice free by leaving them out of stacks and at the same time build up their traits for the buildings I constructed. It was also interesting to notice that if you leave governors out of stacks they still can get good traits and good trait improvements. I haven't noticed any bad traits appearing in out of stack governors, but it was still early game. The kings traits must be global because for some reason I was able to build up my governors traits on the same province the king was in.

In the end-turn phase, when all the VnV triggers are computed only the commander of an army stack is eligible for a VnV. So either the guy with the most command stars or the king. If you don't want someone to get a vice, stick him in a stack with a higher star general (of course, he won't get any virtues either...). If things are going well for a faction, I imagine tons of single unit stacks would create plenty of VnVs.

There is no need to keep a governor in "his" province, it doesn't affect how his stats influence the provincial loyalty or income. Supposedly, not moving a general for a while can lead to bad vices as well.

Edit->beaten by Caravel!

[Brandy Blue]

Buildings do not affect acumen or loyalty of new generals, just the VnVs that get triggered from building them.

OK, but maybe Gaiseric is thinking of buildings that allow you to assign a new title. I don't remember anything about them except that they exist, and I think that cathedral and grand mosque give new acumen offices. I've no idea what buildings Hellenic Total war has of what additional titles they might allow.

[caravel]

Some titles do come from the official buildings (palace, etc) and from the grand mosque/cathedral.

I think building the University increases the acumen of all of your newly trained generals, but don't quote me on that one. It definitely has some kind of global effect anyway.

[Gaiseric]

Thanks for the help Caravel and drone!!! This really clears things up!!! I have played some more game starts and gone a bit further than I had before. As time went by, I had plenty of 4 acumen and good loyalty generals to choose from. I set the generals/units that have good stats and loyalty, and that I want to govern, off to the side not in a stack. I actually had a waiting list because the further I went in the game, the better quality of generals I was recruiting. The recruitment of 4 acumen, good loyalty generals still seemed random though and really did not depend on the total number of generals I recruited. The reason the basic leader improved the more I played was probably due to my influence and other king stats increasing. I would say that the first 10 turns or so was very hard to recruit any decent leaders and that is true for all the game starts I have played. After that it greatly improves.

For building governor stats I leave them in their province and outside of a stack. From what I have seen in my games they rarely will get bad traits this way, but they can still get good ones in addition to the traits they get from the buildings I construct. I have seen multiple instances where governors got building traits while they where in the same province as the king. The king however, did not get the same traits as the governor, so I think the good building\farming traits for the king are global. This is actually a good thing because then I can have multiple governors get the steward trait, and then the king can get it too, doubling the provinces bonuses. General loyalty was also less of a factor the more I played because the building traits the king can get will add to all generals loyalty.

I am planning to go further into the game now and will post more observations, and questions about traits as I go. I am playing The Ancient:Total War mod, but I think the traits are mostly the same. Thanks again for the help!!!

[Gaiseric]

Another double post. Trait building is going well. This time I got a quick question on trade.

Where can I find a trade buildings max trade value in the game files?

In the past two or three campaigns I have gotten some nice little empires set up. Each time I tried trading but ended up bankrupt because my trade buildings have hit their max value of trade allowed. I kept sending out ships unaware that I hit the max trade mark. Meanwhile these ships I sent halfway around Europe, are not bringing in any profits and their upkeep is killing me. It would help me very much to know if there is a place in the game files or anywhere else where I can find this number or an approximate range.

This post is regarding The Ancient:Total War Mod. When Installing the mod some of the vanilla files may have been deleted, overwritten, or modified. If you can point to where the max trade values are in MTW, I can probably find them in ATW. Thanks!!!

[caravel]

As it's a mod you're playing I can't be sure that all the info is relevant. But there is no cap on trade income. Basically trade works as follows:

1) To trade you must be neutral or allied with the faction you wish to trade with. Otherwise no trading occurs.

2) The province that will be trading, needs at least one tradeable goods type to be present in the province.

3) The province requires the presence of a port and trader building.

4) You need at least one ship in the sea region adjoining the port of the province and at least one ship in every province between that province and the sea region adjoining the port of the province you wish to trade with. Henceforth referred to as the "trade route".

5) The province you wish to trade with needs to have a port - no port no trade.

6) The province you wish to trade with must not already have the goods you're trying to trade there. So for example if your province has wool and the neutral/allied province you're attempting to trade with already has wool - no trade occurs.

7) The "trade route" must be uninterrupted. Any enemy ships along the route will turn a sea region "hostile" . No trade can pass through a hostile, region, thus the route is cut off to trade and transport of army stacks. Obviously any breaks in the route caused by loss of one of your vessels will also cut the route and income off.

8) Trade is subject to an import tax, so you also make 20% on the income of other factions trading with you and vice versa.

9) Ship upkeep increases as they get further from your ports. So for example, if you're playing as the English or French and are trading extensively, take some of the Mediterranean islands and build (at the very least a port) there to get a substantial decrease in ship upkeep.

10) Upgrade trading posts when possible but prioritise those provinces with 2 or more decent value trade goods. It's possible to make a vast amount of florins out of trade - in fact it's a bit of an exploit. No not waste florins building trading posts inland. Yes those provinces have trade goods, but it will take years to get a return on your investment from the paltry "local trade" income alone.

[Gaiseric]

Thanks for the info!!! I am sure that there was a trade cap to some of my buildings in previous games. This is in Ancient:Total War though. When I construct the various trade buildings and upgrades, the building info even mentions that there is only so much income that a single building can generate, although it doesn't mention the amount. Each trade building upgrade that I build increases the cap, although I am unsure what the caps are. I do know that Ancient:Total War completely changes the trade system in the game. Many provinces offer different goods than MTW for lower amounts. If there was a cap on the income a trade building can generate, what file do you think it would be in or where can I look?

I am going to start a new campaign in ATW, this time keeping a closer eye on my trade buildings income. If I cant find the max income for the different trade buildings in the game files, then I will have to find it out the hard way in the game. These values may vary a bit depending on my kings and governors acumen. When I find the approximate numbers, I will post them both here and in the ATW forums so that other people who play the mod wont have to find them out the hard way.

Thanks again for highlighting the trade mechanics of the game!!! This is good to know and I will use it in my next trade game!!! I also found the new value of all the trade goods in ATW\campmap\startpos\Ancient8_Early.txt. There is also a value to determine the amount of cash I get for imported goods. This is probably added to the goods the AI trades to my regions. I viewed this file a few times and have not seen any max income\trade caps. The only other file I would think to look for it is in the main directory in Ancient_EH_build_prod.txt. Because of the way this file is written, it is hard for me to know what number I am looking for, if a number for income\max trade value is there at all. I'll post it in a spoiler, and maybe you will be able to see something I am missing. I'll post the Ancient_EH_build_prod.txt guide too to help you with your search. As long as I am posting spoilers, If you are interested in the new value of trade goods for ATW, I'll post that too. It may also help determine the max trade value for a region with certain goods.

Here is the guide:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Number of upgrades Name/Identifier Localised name Building type Cost including upgrades Time to build including upgrades Building conditions Strategy map infopic filename Strategy map piece filename AI characters building production preferences AI building influences for building combos Is this a 'frontline' specific building? Ruler ID building advantage Additional building influences for AI given that this building can be aquired at a discounted price Specific religion if this building belongs to one. Loyalty bonus gained from having this building Troop upgrade capabilities Tech Level Resources required to be present in region before this building can be built. Faction Association Glory conditions Faith Propogation Income generated by this building Population happiness adjuster. How much this building will increase the peoples happiness if built. Mercenary Magnetism. Is this shady meeting place where you might hire mercenaries? ( default is NO ) Invention requirements for building. Unit Capacity
Integer Label String Label Integer Integer string String labels labels YES NO Label Buildingname(influence) Label Integer Label Integer Labels ( the name of the resource in capital letters ) Labels (as same field in Troop Prod but extended to match building conditions field, i.e. upgrades, blank if all factions can build whole chain) Some glory conditions require a building to be present, this column specifies which ( if any ) Glory conditions this building is associated with. Values ranging 0.0 - 100.0, no entry equates to 0.0. Integer.. Integer. Yes/No Label Integer

Here is the trade buildings:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

4 MERCHANT "Trader, Trading Post, Merchant, Merchants Guild, Master Merchant" TRADING_POST "200, 300, 400, 500, 600" "2, 1, 2, 2, 3" "{CASTLE}, {MERCHANT, CASTLE3}, {MERCHANT2, CASTLE5}, {MERCHANT3, CASTLE7}, {MERCHANT4, CASTLE9}" "viking Office Level 1, Office Level 1, Office Level 2, Office Level 3, Office Level 4" "POVERTY_STRICKEN(60), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(30), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(30), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(30), CATHOLIC_TRADER(60), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(60), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(30), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(30), POPE(30), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(30), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(20), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(30), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(30), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(20), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(40), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(30), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(30), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(10), REBELS(20), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(60), POVERTY_STRICKEN(60), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(30), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(30), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(30), CATHOLIC_TRADER(60), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(60), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(30), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(30), POPE(30), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(30), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(20), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(30), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(30), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(20), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(40), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(30), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(30), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(10), REBELS(20), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(60), POVERTY_STRICKEN(62), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(31), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(31), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(31), CATHOLIC_TRADER(62), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(62), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(31), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(31), POPE(31), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(31), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(21), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(31), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(31), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(21), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(42), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(31), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(31), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(11), REBELS(21), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(62), POVERTY_STRICKEN(64), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(32), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(32), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(32), CATHOLIC_TRADER(64), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(64), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(32), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(32), POPE(32), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(32), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(22), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(32), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(32), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(22), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(44), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(32), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(32), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(12), REBELS(22), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(64), POVERTY_STRICKEN(66), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(33), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(33), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(33), CATHOLIC_TRADER(66), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(66), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(33), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(33), POPE(33), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(33), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(23), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(33), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(33), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(23), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(46), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(33), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(33), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(13), REBELS(23), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(66), " {PORT(150)},{PORT(150)},{PORT(150)},{PORT(150)},{PORT(150)} NO "1, 2, 3, 4, 5" "{}, {FN_01, FN_02, FN_03, FN_04, FN_05, FN_06, FN_17, FN_08, FN_09, FN_10, FN_11, FN_12, FN_13, FN_14, FN_15, FN_16, FN_18, FN_19, FN_20, FN_21, FN_22, FN_23, FN_24, FN_25, FN_26, FN_27, FN_28}, {FN_01, FN_02, FN_03, FN_04, FN_05, FN_06, FN_17, FN_08, FN_09, FN_10, FN_11, FN_12, FN_13, FN_14, FN_15, FN_16, FN_18, FN_19, FN_20, FN_21, FN_22, FN_23, FN_24, FN_25, FN_26, FN_27, FN_28}, {FN_01, FN_02, FN_03, FN_04, FN_05, FN_06, FN_17, FN_08, FN_09, FN_10, FN_11, FN_12, FN_13, FN_14, FN_15, FN_16, FN_18, FN_19, FN_20, FN_21, FN_22, FN_23, FN_24, FN_25, FN_26, FN_27, FN_28}, {FN_01, FN_02, FN_03, FN_04, FN_05, FN_06, FN_17, FN_08, FN_09, FN_10, FN_11, FN_12, FN_13, FN_14, FN_15, FN_16, FN_18, FN_20, FN_21, FN_22, FN_23, FN_24, FN_25, FN_26, FN_27, FN_28}" "-1, -2, -3, -4, -5"

Here are the new vales of trade goods:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

//========================================
// Declare the tradable goods for this campaign.
//========================================
DeclareTradegoods:: "WOOD" 10
DeclareTradegoods:: "FURS" 20
DeclareTradegoods:: "WOOL" 15
DeclareTradegoods:: "FISH" 10
DeclareTradegoods:: "HONEY" 20
DeclareTradegoods:: "SALT" 30
DeclareTradegoods:: "POTTERY" 15
DeclareTradegoods:: "LINEN" 15
DeclareTradegoods:: "AMBER" 20
DeclareTradegoods:: "GRAIN" 15
DeclareTradegoods:: "JET" 15
DeclareTradegoods:: "MEAD" 15
DeclareTradegoods:: "PEWTER" 15
DeclareTradegoods:: "TEXTILES" 10
DeclareTradegoods:: "OLIVEOIL" 25
DeclareTradegoods:: "WINE" 20
DeclareTradegoods:: "COPPER" 20
DeclareTradegoods:: "TIN" 50




//========================================
// This represents the percentage of the export
// value imported goods are worth..
//========================================
SetImportPercentage:: 20

//========================================

[caravel]

There is no "trade cap" of any sorts.

The behaviour of the trader line of building is hardcoded. The first building allows trade and, IIRC, subsequent upgrade buildings give bonuses to trade income.

[Gaiseric]

I wonder what was happening in my game then? Do rebel ports provide a trade link? I was not at war with anyone at the time so all the other ports that had different goods were trading with me. I think what may have killed me was the upkeep costs that I was charged just getting my ships to their destinations. If I can only travel in coastal waters one space a turn, and I have to get to the far side of the Mediterranean, then the cost of just getting there can be huge, especially if I am moving multiple ships at once. Add to that the lower value of trade goods in ATW, and I think I may have discovered my problem. I will try to keep a closer eye on my trade returns and ship upkeep my next game.

One final important question on trade: If I have one shipyard and keep building trade ships from there every turn with the intention of global MTW trading, how do I send my newly created merchant ships to their destination? As soon as a new ship is built, I have been picking it up and placing it in the next sea zone in my trade link. I then pickup the ship that was in that spot and move it down the line, picking up all the ships in my trade link and moving them one space down each time a new ship is completed. I haven't noticed any trade fluctuations while doing this, but I wanted to be certain that ships in movement can still participate in trade?

[caravel]

I wonder what was happening in my game then? Do rebel ports provide a trade link? I was not at war with anyone at the time so all the other ports that had different goods were trading with me. I think what may have killed me was the upkeep costs that I was charged just getting my ships to their destinations. If I can only travel in coastal waters one space a turn, and I have to get to the far side of the Mediterranean, then the cost of just getting there can be huge, especially if I am moving multiple ships at once. Add to that the lower value of trade goods in ATW, and I think I may have discovered my problem. I will try to keep a closer eye on my trade returns and ship upkeep my next game.

Your ship upkeep is probably a big factor. You only want to send your ships into seas if they are providing a link or if there is a port there which you can trade with. If the port already has the goods you're trading it's not worth it. There are certain regions that are rich for trading, the eastern med and baltic being the two most notable. Also there are seas that have many ports adjoining them - these are good places to send your ships.

One final important question on trade: If I have one shipyard and keep building trade ships from there every turn with the intention of global MTW trading, how do I send my newly created merchant ships to their destination? As soon as a new ship is built, I have been picking it up and placing it in the next sea zone in my trade link. I then pickup the ship that was in that spot and move it down the line, picking up all the ships in my trade link and moving them one space down each time a new ship is completed. I haven't noticed any trade fluctuations while doing this, but I wanted to be certain that ships in movement can still participate in trade?

That's the correct method yes. Just try to keep, at the very least, two ships per sea region, otherwise you will be tempting the AI to attack you (breaking alliances and trade routes in the process). The AI can't seem to resist lone vessels.

[Gaiseric]

Ok, I have trade figured out. I am mostly going to try to avoid it if possible, my goal is world conquest, not medieval logistics. At least now I know the mechanics behind MTW's trade system. I have started a few more games since my above post, and I have stumbled upon some very important questions:

1) What buildings get destroyed when one of your border provinces is besieged by an enemy? This question is so important that it will affect my overall game strategy. What I was thinking of doing was to only have a few backup armies for defense in some of the provinces that border many others. I can usually guard at least three provinces this way and save a lot of money by using these backup armies to counter-attack any invasion and besieged province of mine. Knowing what buildings will most likely get destroyed when an enemy besieges a province, will save me even more money because I will know what is safe to build in the border provinces using this strategy.

2) What is the best method for determining all the different troop stats and which troops to recruit in-game? None of the unit cards give any stats. I am totally in the dark and the only way for me to find out good troop combos is by testing them in battle. What general rules can I follow when recruiting troops and combining units into armies? So far I am recruiting based on support costs figuring that the higher the support cost, the better the unit. My tests in battles have been inconclusive. I have seen some units do well vs certain unit types, while other units get slaughtered. There has to be a better method for determining army composition then taking mental notes on which units do good or bad against other units.

[drone]

2) What is the best method for determining all the different troop stats and which troops to recruit in-game? None of the unit cards give any stats. I am totally in the dark and the only way for me to find out good troop combos is by testing them in battle. What general rules can I follow when recruiting troops and combining units into armies? So far I am recruiting based on support costs figuring that the higher the support cost, the better the unit. My tests in battles have been inconclusive. I have seen some units do well vs certain unit types, while other units get slaughtered. There has to be a better method for determining army composition then taking mental notes on which units do good or bad against other units.

I can't remember the exact wording, but the unit info shown on the recruitment page has stuff like "good attack, poor defense, bonus against cavalry". The good/poor/excellent/etc. notations fit a certain stat range, they should give you hints in-game. If you want exact numbers, you need to check out the unit_prod file for the mod, the various battle stats, build/maintenance costs, situational bonuses, and other details are all in there. You can use the Gnome Unit editor to view them (actually changing them with it can be risky however). There are descriptions (albeit poor) of the unit_prod file columns in the MTW wiki. There should be a link to the Gnome Editor on the unit_prod page.

[Ironside]

I can add that "nothing" is higher than poor, so no mention of attack or defense means that they are above poor, but below good.

Complete stat summary is given by F1 on the combat map, but you are probably already aware of this.

Don't remember question nr 1 exactly, but iirc religious buildings are looted directly, while the rest is damaged when the castle falls.

[caravel]

I hate the auto razing with a passion. It cripples the AI and having to rebuild everything is extremely annoying. You can imagine the scenario of a "siege of Constantinople according to MTW":

"keep that magnificent Byzantine church intact men! I intend to build four minarets when I have time and convert it into a super Grand Mosque!"

**rumble** **crash**

"Oh what the !?"

Even more annoying is the auto-razing of ports.

[Gaiseric]

Thanks for the replies!!! I am still learning what buildings get destroyed when an enemy besieges a province. I thought that they got destroyed as soon as the enemy lays siege. I was glad to find, from the few examples that I have witnessed, that this was not the case. When an enemy besieges the province, most buildings remain intact, and only get destroyed once the province is captured. The only building that survives a province takeover in Ancient:Total War is a port. This is indeed unfortunate, because of all the rebuilding that must be done every time a province changes hands. This does help my strategy though, as now my garrison can retreat to the castle and then my backup armies can relieve them the next turn.

For stats, I will have to try F1 in battle. I did have a look at the unit_prod_file for ATW, but the information in there is disorganized. I guess I have been spoiled by stats given on the unit cards for later TW games. For now I will have to rely on the information the MTW unit cards give me. I assume that the more advanced the troop type, and the higher support costs, the better the unit is. I will have to find out good army combos as I go along.

Thanks again for the help!!! I will probably be back and post more questions to this thread as I play.

[caravel]

Yes when you lose the province and go under siege, some buildings are damaged/destroyed, but the castle will remain intact. If you lose the siege, more buildings will likely be damaged/destroyed and the castle "damaged" (downgraded). Thus just going under siege can be costly in a well developed province. If you have some advanced buildings it's worth fighting it out on the field, even if there's only an outside chance of winning. I try to keep my production centres well away from the battlefront, but it's not always that simple.

[Vantek]

I hate the auto razing with a passion. It cripples the AI and having to rebuild everything is extremely annoying. You can imagine the scenario of a "siege of Constantinople according to MTW":

"keep that magnificent Byzantine church intact men! I intend to build four minarets when I have time and convert it into a super Grand Mosque!"

**rumble** **crash**

"Oh what the !?"

Even more annoying is the auto-razing of ports.

If I remember correctly, before VI, the siege didn't even need to end before things would get razed, right? Talk about annoying and crippling the AI! With just one strong army you could quickly leave a whole faction in shambles while making a ton of money, and all of this without winning a single siege!