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Thread: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

  1. #1
    EB on ALX player Member ziegenpeter's Avatar
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    Default Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Good day, fellow Eb-Fans!
    There is somthing I discovered in my EB campaigns and also on some maps of campaigns posted around here: The Armenians tend to always go for the steppe. I mean its cool, ridin' around, shootin' arrows and such, but wouldnt it be more accurate if they tried to get the whole caucasian region first? Or is it that once VCs are set, you cannot priorize among them? Similar to the romans who have their bellum gallicum a few centuries to early, before even considering an invasion of greece...

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  2. #2
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    They start at war with Sauromatae and allied to AS. This is usually enough for them to push north. If you want different results, you could try allying them to Sauros and see if they go south instead. Probably ahistorical but so is a Hai empire on the steppes.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    afaik the AI is scripted to (if possible) go north first, then east, south and finaly west. offcource in any case this effect is amplified by the aforementioned diplomacy

    edit: argh sorry offcource I meant Hardcoded not scripted ;)
    Last edited by Ca Putt; 11-03-2010 at 20:10.
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    Apprentice Geologist Member Blxz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Putt View Post
    afaik the AI is scripted to (if possible) go north first, then east, south and finaly west. offcource in any case this effect is amplified by the aforementioned diplomacy

    edit: argh sorry offcource I meant Hardcoded not scripted ;)
    Some people have said that the AI factions go north first becasue that is where the original Latium province is (Gotland). In RTW original game the goal for every faction was to take latium. I wonder if relocating Latium would have an effect? Maybe put it as Byzantion or some other centrally located province.

    Furthermore, with the Hai they have war with a neighbour who is poorer than them and allied withg a superpower. Its an easy choice. Having said that though, in every one of my most recent games after I increased default movement points the Hai have united the caucasus region as well as kabalaka. And only one of those games have they gone north, admittedly with a vengence. Maybe the AS just get there before they do? try modding around some files a bit.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blxz View Post
    Some people have said that the AI factions go north first becasue that is where the original Latium province is (Gotland). In RTW original game the goal for every faction was to take latium. I wonder if relocating Latium would have an effect? Maybe put it as Byzantion or some other centrally located province.
    If true, that's incredible!!! Every faction heading for the Sweboz? That's so unfair.....

    If there is a 'magnetic province' that every faction wants, it should be Syria, gateway to the East and pretty much the centre of the map.

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    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Marcellus Scato View Post
    If true, that's incredible!!! Every faction heading for the Sweboz? That's so unfair.....

    If there is a 'magnetic province' that every faction wants, it should be Syria, gateway to the East and pretty much the centre of the map.
    As if the poor Seleucids haven't got enough problems already. I don't know if it's true; it's just a hypothesis to explain the A.I.'s preference for northward-expansion. For the Sweboz, the only problem this causes is the Romans obsession with taking the Alps, and the scripted Alpine defenders now slow them down considerably. Other factions are too far away to reach the Sweboz, or tend to be at war with them.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Interesting theory, but my question is why would EB team have moved that province at all in the first place? And also, could this explain the strange behavior of the Romans, who actually are the Seleucids in game turns, to ignore any threats towards Roma, while trying to grab the last rebel/enemy province out in nowhere?
    If this theory is kind of true, "Latium" should be where it belongs to - in Italy, imo.
    Also interesting, why were the factions replaced/exchanged as they are, i mean in game terms, does anyone know?
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    In earlier versions of RTW the number of factions per culture were hardcoded to the Vanilla default (4 roman factions, 1 egytian,...). Because the EB team started modding back then they swapped the factions around and didn't change it after the patch that fixed this problem was released (probably because it would have been too much work).

  9. #9
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Quote Originally Posted by vollorix View Post
    Interesting theory, but my question is why would EB team have moved that province at all in the first place? And also, could this explain the strange behavior of the Romans, who actually are the Seleucids in game turns, to ignore any threats towards Roma, while trying to grab the last rebel/enemy province out in nowhere?
    If this theory is kind of true, "Latium" should be where it belongs to - in Italy, imo.
    The team may have wanted to prevent a dog-pile on the SPQR. Vanilla R:TW is basically set up as Rome vs. the World; but Rome is a coalition of three strong factions, with a fourth holding Latium. In EB, Rome is far weaker.

    That said, don't overrate the importance of this mechanism. It just means that the A.I. expands north if there are no pressing reasons to go elsewhere. A friendly relation with the northern neighbour will override this, as do ongoing wars, and the urge to attack the player's faction.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    As if the poor Seleucids haven't got enough problems already.
    Actually, they don't.....otherwise we wouldn't be talking about a 'Grey Death'.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Marcellus Scato View Post
    Actually, they don't.....otherwise we wouldn't be talking about a 'Grey Death'.
    If there's no 'Grey Death' there will be the yellow one, the seleucids aren't overpowered. The problem is probably that the ptolies and seleucids use the same MICs.

  12. #12
    Apprentice Geologist Member Blxz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rahl View Post
    the seleucids aren't overpowered.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    the poit about latium beeing moved to gotland is that it's the only province that cannot be taken by the AI.(well exept for Eremos). probably this prevents the AI from ending your game not sure tho
    "Who fights can lose, who doesn't fight has already lost."
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    "Durch diese hohle Gasse muss er kommen..."
    - Leonidas of Sparta

    "People called Romanes they go the House"
    - Alaric the Visigoth

  14. #14

    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blxz View Post
    Some people have said that the AI factions go north first becasue that is where the original Latium province is (Gotland). In RTW original game the goal for every faction was to take latium. I wonder if relocating Latium would have an effect? Maybe put it as Byzantion or some other centrally located province.

    Furthermore, with the Hai they have war with a neighbour who is poorer than them and allied withg a superpower. Its an easy choice. Having said that though, in every one of my most recent games after I increased default movement points the Hai have united the caucasus region as well as kabalaka. And only one of those games have they gone north, admittedly with a vengence. Maybe the AS just get there before they do? try modding around some files a bit.
    This.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    The team may have wanted to prevent a dog-pile on the SPQR. Vanilla R:TW is basically set up as Rome vs. the World; but Rome is a coalition of three strong factions, with a fourth holding Latium. In EB, Rome is far weaker.

    That said, don't overrate the importance of this mechanism. It just means that the A.I. expands north if there are no pressing reasons to go elsewhere. A friendly relation with the northern neighbour will override this, as do ongoing wars, and the urge to attack the player's faction.
    And this.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    salamis would have been a better choice imho it´s in the midle of the map and since it´s an island the ai won´t take it easily either (ofc the ptolomaic might run into problems with having too many enemies attacking and blockading their harbors)

  16. #16
    Unbowed Unbent Unbroken Member Lazy O's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    Honesetly if some one tells me how to change Latium Province Il make a modfolder just to correct AI behaviour for Specific important regions


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  17. #17
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sth wrong with the Hay victory conditions?

    IIRC the Latium province is there to prevent the vanilla victory conditions from occuring, I'm not exactly sure what the consequence of that would be though.


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