Looks like the brits are still a fine people

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The only way to close the funding gap that is fair is to cut places and close universities. Take the bottom 20% of Uni's, close, sell off their buildings and return their funding to more worthy institutions, cut places at other Universities by 30% and you're done.

Those clever enough to get a place will, those who aren't won't. If you really want it you can keep applying until someone takes you. While we're at it, we should tripple the workload of the average undergraduate, they spend far too much time drinking and partying right now.

[gaelic cowboy]

To be honest I dont see why they couldnt just shrink all those arts degrees down to two years etc.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

To be honest I dont see why they couldnt just shrink all those arts degrees down to two years etc.

Better to double the amount in them, then I wouldn't be marking papers without basic formatting or comprehension.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Better to double the amount in them, then I wouldn't be marking papers without basic formatting or comprehension.

Actually, this is a much better suggestion. There is not even any point in writing an 800 word paper. The average essay is 2,000 words, which is also far from ideal. Heck, my dissertation is 15,000 words and I wish it was triple that to make all the points I need to.

[Rhyfelwyr]

While we're at it, we should tripple the workload of the average undergraduate.

Try it and that'll be me smashing into the Conservative offices next time!

[gaelic cowboy]

Try it and that'll be me smashing into the Conservative offices next time!

Tell me Rhyfelwyr what colour was Rachel Rileys skirt today??? bah students in arts courses have loads of time

[rory_20_uk]

When 5% go to uni it's sustainable for the government to fund it.
When 50% go to uni it's not.

That's 3 years lost taxes for those that should have jobs, and no, people are not vastly cleverer. There are just more crap degrees and teh standard for jobs is artificially raised to a BSc / BA as so many people have one.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Tell me Rhyfelwyr what colour was Rachel Rileys skirt today??? bah students in arts courses have loads of time

I was much too busy vegetating in front of my PC today, have to say I missed Countdown. And Deal or no Deal! And that funny programme they now have on BBC about the Canadian mounty that solves crimes in New York. It is so funny, I thought it couldn't get better than Doctor Sloan gliding aroud Community General in his rollerskates and telling criminals how he solves their crimes while tap-dancing with them, but this goes the extra mile.

Fair point about the degree length, the BBC did an article on just that matter recently, can't find it now though. 2 years would have been more than enough for what I've had to do.

[gaelic cowboy]

I was much too busy vegetating in front of my PC today, have to say I missed Countdown. And Deal or no Deal! And that funny programme they now have on BBC about the Canadian mounty that solves crimes in New York. It is so funny, I thought it couldn't get better than Doctor Sloan gliding aroud Community General in his rollerskates and telling criminals how he solves their crimes while tap-dancing with them, but this goes the extra mile.

Due South

Years ago RTE used show that Diagnosis Murder and I specifically remember an episode with an actual vampire in it

[tibilicus]

The University funding issue highlights a bigger problem with the state system as a whole. Although popular belief will tell us that since the 80s, the public sector has been cut back more and more, this isn't the case. Relative state spending has gone up, it happened even under Thatcher, the problem is demand on the state is so great that demand simply exceeds availability of resources with in the state my model.

R.E universities, my personal solution would be to cut the number of places drastically. That doesn't mean that people can't go to university, how about we just adopt a different system. Those who want to go to proper universities can go when they're 18 and those who would normally go to a former polly can postpone their education for a couple of years. If they genuine need the skills from a university course, they can go back and study part-time later on and who knows, maybe even their employer might support them.

Point being it's wrong that so many people should start their lives crippled by debt, it only leads to a vicious cycle of repayments and life long debt. University can be free for those who need it, we do however need to fundamentally change our system before we end up at the awful American mode.

[gaelic cowboy]

R.E universities, my personal solution would be to cut the number of places drastically. That doesn't mean that people can't go to university, how about we just adopt a different system. Those who want to go to proper universities can go when they're 18 and those who would normally go to a former polly can postpone their education for a couple of years. If they genuine need the skills from a university course, they can go back and study part-time later on and who knows, maybe even their employer might support them.

If UK is anything like Ireland then employers basically demanded the Pollytechnics etc become something more to supply more maintainence technicians and masses of engineers, draughtsmen etc for the "Smart Economy"

Uni's can be poor at supplying these types of people for industry at least in UK/Ireland

[drone]

Due South

Diefenbaker ruled.

[gaelic cowboy]

Diefenbaker ruled.

The absurd politeness and weird rituals were the icing on this shows cake

[Beskar]

Try it and that'll be me smashing into the Conservative offices next time!

yeah if horetore did that, you might have do the half average workload of a real degree.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Due South

Years ago RTE used show that Diagnosis Murder and I specifically remember an episode with an actual vampire in it

lol, I remember that episode as well! I always wondered what would happen if they did something like that in an otherwise reality based TV show... Dick van Dyke is the man.

yeah if horetore did that, you might have do the half average workload of a real degree.

A bit of jealousy there methinks. Anyway, I am doing real degree, at a real Uni, that will get me a real job. With a real two hours classes a week. Ha!

[gaelic cowboy]

lol, I remember that episode as well! I always wondered what would happen if they did something like that in an otherwise reality based TV show... Dick van Dyke is the man.

The Dick Van Dyke Show basically invented the sitcom that we would recocnise

[Beskar]

A bit of jealousy there methinks. Anyway, I am doing real degree, at a real Uni, that will get me a real job. With a real two hours classes a week. Ha!

'real degree' =
'real Uni' =
'real job' = I don't think KFC comes under that...

Sorry, but at the real universities, there is no two hours per week. There is 2 hours peer week per module at least, and there is usually at least 3 modules. This is no even accounting for all the pre-seminar work, readings and lectures themselves, the hours listed were just seminars. I even asked friends and family members, and they say the same in other universities. So with Oxford (1st), Cambridge (2nd), St Andrews (4th), Lancaster (6th) being accounted... It isn't jealousy, I find it insulting.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I, for one, applaud internal British resistance to global Anglo-capitalist oppression.

[Rhyfelwyr]

'real degree' =
'real Uni' =
'real job' = I don't think KFC comes under that...

Sorry, but at the real universities, there is no two hours per week. There is 2 hours peer week per module at least, and there is usually at least 3 modules. This is no even accounting for all the pre-seminar work, readings and lectures themselves, the hours listed were just seminars. I even asked friends and family members, and they say the same in other universities. So with Oxford (1st), Cambridge (2nd), St Andrews (4th), Lancaster (6th) being accounted... It isn't jealousy, I find it insulting.

I meant jealous at my lack of a workload, not my Uni.

Anyway, my two hours are for one module. My dissertation counts for my other two this term (3 in total each term over 4 terms in 3rd/4th year. I'm pretty sure Glasgow counts as a real Uni. And I don't plan to build a career in KFC, don't you have a part-time job?

[Beskar]

I meant jealous at my lack of a workload, not my Uni.

Anyway, my two hours are for one module. My dissertation counts for my other two this term (3 in total each term over 4 terms in 3rd/4th year. I'm pretty sure Glasgow counts as a real Uni. And I don't plan to build a career in KFC, don't you have a part-time job?

Quite a lot of intellectual elitism coming from you Beskar, got to say I'm not impressed. Hate to break it to you but unless you went to Oxford and got a first, then there's always going to be someone claiming that their education is better than yours. What would you define as a real university anyway? As far as hours go as well, that's another poor indicator as hours vary per university and more so per subject. I currently have three hours worth of lectures per week from history (one module) and yet my two politics modules only have 2 hours per week of lectures between them. The work load for both is still the same however, it's just structure. Oh, and before you do bring it up, I do go to a "real" university, if by real you mean Russell group. I personally don't think this is a fair indication of a "real" university though.

I apologise, there is some misunderstanding, which I will clear up first.

I am not being elitist, by the definition I am not actively saying "my university is better than yours". In short, I have a BSc and a MSc, and I had to work very hard for them, along side having a demanding part-time job which required 12-hour shifts and I had to completely self-finance myself with no aid from my parents (they don't have money). There was virtually no room for slacking and those who did slack walked away with having a third (aka, waste of a university attendance). There was constant demands on time and constant assessment.

The thing was, Rhyfelwyr was going around in a few threads and there were a couple of other comments about 2 hours a week, with the rest just doing nothing at all, saying the complete university experience is a blow-over which required no effort or commitment. Naturally, I have been in an environment with constant work and deadlines, having to work part-time, and pretty much only time I got any serious free time was after the term had ended (Xmas, Easter, Summer). So the issue is, is some one turned around and completely fobbing off University, I find that insulting and simply think they do not know what they are talking about, so they must either be on a waste of time 'art degree' or simply at a University which doesn't care.

So it isn't educational elitism, it is more of a case that I feel like I am being insulted and the work and effort I had to put in is being disgraced as I end up getting branded in the same category.

So when it comes to Rory possibly joking about University experience (He did Medical Science, so probably would be similar to me), however, the whole two hour thing is a complete disconnection.

[tibilicus]

'real degree' =
'real Uni' =
'real job' = I don't think KFC comes under that...

Sorry, but at the real universities, there is no two hours per week. There is 2 hours peer week per module at least, and there is usually at least 3 modules. This is no even accounting for all the pre-seminar work, readings and lectures themselves, the hours listed were just seminars. I even asked friends and family members, and they say the same in other universities. So with Oxford (1st), Cambridge (2nd), St Andrews (4th), Lancaster (6th) being accounted... It isn't jealousy, I find it insulting.

Quite a lot of intellectual elitism coming from you Beskar, got to say I'm not impressed. Hate to break it to you but unless you went to Oxford and got a first, then there's always going to be someone claiming that their education is better than yours. What would you define as a real university anyway? As far as hours go as well, that's another poor indicator as hours vary per university and more so per subject. I currently have three hours worth of lectures per week from history (one module) and yet my two politics modules only have 2 hours per week of lectures between them. The work load for both is still the same however, it's just structure. Oh, and before you do bring it up, I do go to a "real" university, if by real you mean Russell group. I personally don't think this is a fair indication of a "real" university though.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Quite a lot of intellectual elitism coming from you Beskar, got to say I'm not impressed. Hate to break it to you but unless you went to Oxford and got a first, then there's always going to be someone claiming that their education is better than yours. What would you define as a real university anyway? As far as hours go as well, that's another poor indicator as hours vary per university and more so per subject. I currently have three hours worth of lectures per week from history (one module) and yet my two politics modules only have 2 hours per week of lectures between them. The work load for both is still the same however, it's just structure. Oh, and before you do bring it up, I do go to a "real" university, if by real you mean Russell group. I personally don't think this is a fair indication of a "real" university though.

Well, I'm not studying at a Russell Group University, and I only have one elcture and one Seminar a week (three hours)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

but that's because I'm the one teaching!

Seriously though guys, enough with the measuring. If you din't go to Oxford 20 years ago your degree probably isn't worth much academically - live with it.