Euro Area

[HopAlongBunny]

Side-note: UBS tagged in ongoing LIBOR investigation. In a common refrain it appears some individual traders are to blame, certainly not the bank...never the bank. A fine of 1.5 billion francs, and business as usual.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8BE05M20121215

[Fragony]

Lol, chech republicic, where did these 26.7 billion euro's the international-socialism gave you go.

[HopAlongBunny]

It looks like Royal Bank of Scotland is up next for a wrist-slap over LIBOR.

Nothing official as yet, but again it looks like fines with no criminal liability; Thank God they're are all so innocent! It really would have been so tacky if criminals had been involved :p

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20973971

We may raise questions about the exact meaning of "Justice is Blind" :)

[Fragony]

Money well spend, the international-socialism wires 5 billion to the Muslim-Brotherhood. And still people believe the Eurbia-theory isn't real. After the excessive dhimmitude of the unelected 'good after the war' Schultz a lot of eyebrows are being raised with people who don't read quality-media. Why the hell give 5 billion euro to the islamist winter.

[Fragony]

Kewl. Dutch politicians are amongst the least trusted by their population in the world. There is hope. Only 6% believe in their integrity we beat Africa. There is a storm comming mister Wayne

[InsaneApache]

The Mediterranean island nation becomes the fifth country to turn to the eurozone, following in the footsteps of Ireland, Greece, Portugal and Spain.

The emergency funding will be used to prop up the country’s banks which were hit by the financial restructuring of nearby Greece.

The Cypriot banking system had grown to be eight times the size of the country’s fledgling economy - which accounts for just 0.2pc of the eurozone’s gross domestic product.

But in a departure from previous bail-outs, the country’s savers are being asked to make sacrifices.

The terms of the deal mean that Cyprus’s savers will sacrifice up to 10pc of their deposits in a move which will raise as much as €6 billion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/9...-bail-out.html

I thought the EU was mad, now I know it is. Idiots.

[gaelic cowboy]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/9...-bail-out.html

I thought the EU was mad, now I know it is. Idiots.

The Cyprus bailout if it took 100% of savings couldn't be paid for.

Also what an incentive to take your savings out at a time when banks in Cyprus require capital. They will hit them for 10% over the weekend and then people will withdraw 100% monday morning, monday afternoon cyprus needs new bailout.

Also there basically penalising ordinary savers for what the EU elite caused by kicking the can so long with Greek banks.

Plus the russian oligarch thing is over played in the media there generally residents and there also generally russian banks

[Fragony]

All Russian mob-money is stored there, the Russian gangs are retrieving it and the banks are falling. The international-socialism acts in the only way it knows, getting funds from the ESM aka the northern countries. We are sooooooo better of without the international-socialism of a Flemish ferret who looks like an owl who just dropped from his tree, his Portugese waitor and a German booksalesman. The sooner the international-socialism dies the better.

[InsaneApache]

Rumour has it that Troops based in cyprus threatened to storm the banks and take their money, hence the scramble to compensate them.

I'd forgotten about Akrotiri. A couple of rounds from a smooth bore 120 mm cannon should do nicely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Akrotiri

[Husar]

Would've been better to just let everyone go bankrupt, devalue the Euro and then rival China's production.

Also british tanks don't have 120mm smoothbore guns, the Challenger 2 has a rifled gun.

[InsaneApache]

Haha I thought you'd know a thing about tanks!

They might have the odd Abrams hanging around.

[Andres]

Also there basically penalising ordinary savers for what the EU elite caused by kicking the can so long with Greek banks.

QFT.

Anyone who is wealthy, doesn't have most of his assets on a savings account, it's spread over real estate, shares, bonds, gold etc. and probably some black money abroad.

This is hitting nobody else but the ordinary people who work their butt off every day for a meagre salary and whose only wealth is a bit of money on a savings account. This is outrageous, this must be the biggest organised theft ever. Those bastards are simply hitting the easiest targets.

One thing's for sure, if they ever do that here, I'll be on the streets. And not to wave with a white balloon or to sing peaceful songs.

[InsaneApache]

The thing is this sets a precedent. How long before other governments, under orders from Bruxelles, start to pinch people money from their banks? This is why I dislike the EU. Accountable to no one. Can't be sacked.

Any Euro fans like to defend this latest outrage?

A comment from a Telegraph article on this sums it up.

A 'tax' which discriminates only against a certain portion of the population (those who have deposits) without good reason (why should just depositors pay - they will include ordinary people with small life savings in a deposit account for instance) is not a tax at all; it is outright theft.

[Andres]

The thing is this sets a precedent. How long before other governments, under orders from Bruxelles, start to pinch people money from their banks? This is why I dislike the EU. Accountable to no one. Can't be sacked.

Why doesn't the Cypriotic government show its' middlefinger to the so-called troïka?

Argentina showed its' middlefinger to the IMF and, apparently, they came through their collapse of their banking system much better than Greece does nowadays.

[InsaneApache]

Well if they carry on like this there will be unrest, perhaps even civil disorder. If that happens the EU peace prize is going to look very hollow indeed.

I've just read that initially they wanted to confiscate steal 40% of the savings, Now that would have started a revolution never mind a riot.

[Andres]

Well if they carry on like this there will be unrest, perhaps even civil disorder. If that happens the EU peace prize is going to look very hollow indeed.

I'm afraid we're only seeing the beginning of our downfall.

I've just read that initially they wanted to confiscate steal 40% of the savings, Now that would have started a revolution never mind a riot.

If we let them get away with stealing 10 % of the Cypriotic people, then maybe next time, they'll simply take everything.

[Vladimir]

I recently spoke with a car salesman from Cork the other day and he impressed upon me that Ireland was for the next 100 years. It seems the most sensible option was to hit the reset button even if 100% of savings were lost. The quick suffering for a decade not being as bad as a slow suffering for ten.

He seemed amused at the thought that the Germans couldn't conquer Europe with their military and that they're trying to do so with their banks.

[gaelic cowboy]

This austerity rubbish will not fix our banks unless they start some proper write offs our problems will continue.

The thing is this sets a precedent. How long before other governments, under orders from Bruxelles, start to pinch people money from their banks? This is why I dislike the EU. Accountable to no one. Can't be sacked.

Any Euro fans like to defend this latest outrage?

A comment from a Telegraph article on this sums it up.

It's such a laugh you need to increase capital in banks so you steal savers money, it'll encourage people to remove all there deposits just in case they go looking for another 10%.

If people take out there money there gonna need more capital and potentially another bailout.

Plus they have breached a principle in that people's money is now not safer in banks, this could have a ripple through the whole EU banking system.

[HopAlongBunny]

It certainly does not seem designed to instil confidence in the banking system; but most confidence games are about getting hold of other peoples money...

[Husar]

Oh come on, the spice money must flow.

And if it's sitting idle on some bank account, it is actively hurting the economy, they should take 50% and tell people to invest or lose.
It's also funny how everybody is putting the blame on Germany when we wanted to spare the small savers who have below 100k.
I just heard on the radio that that was our plan but cypriot politicians (the elected kind) and the EU(the bank mostly IIRC) wanted to include everyone.

This little BBC article supports that notion with the following quote:

The speaker of the European Parliament, Germany's Martin Schulz, has called for the levy to be revised to protect small-scale bank customers.

There was even an idea they mentioned that the small savers would be given shares of the bank in return.
You can put your sensationalist outrage under your pillows, next to that stash of money that is destroying your economy a bit more every day.

[Papewaio]

In general your savings is being invested by the bank. That is why they pay rental ie interest on the savings parked there. Not only that, most banks can loan out a multiplier of the amount of savings that are held within their savings accounts.

So money saved in the bank is actually invested multiple times. This becomes an issue when everyone tries and gets their savings at the same time as the money is on assignment at other places and is being leveraged on top of that.

[Fragony]

QFT.

Anyone who is wealthy, doesn't have most of his assets on a savings account, it's spread over real estate, shares, bonds, gold etc. and probably some black money abroad.

This is hitting nobody else but the ordinary people who work their butt off every day for a meagre salary and whose only wealth is a bit of money on a savings account. This is outrageous, this must be the biggest organised theft ever. Those bastards are simply hitting the easiest targets.

One thing's for sure, if they ever do that here, I'll be on the streets. And not to wave with a white balloon or to sing peaceful songs.

You know they will, the EU wanting an army just got scarier no

[Fragony]

Surprise surprise, vending machines are locked down, nobody has acces to their money despite it being their own money. The unelected international-socialists will never give up, the political union muss sein

[Husar]

In general your savings is being invested by the bank. That is why they pay rental ie interest on the savings parked there. Not only that, most banks can loan out a multiplier of the amount of savings that are held within their savings accounts.

So money saved in the bank is actually invested multiple times. This becomes an issue when everyone tries and gets their savings at the same time as the money is on assignment at other places and is being leveraged on top of that.

I know, but the banks are obviously not investing it well and waste it all or they wouldn't be in trouble.
People should take up personal responsibility and invest the money themselves, not only do they get more than 1 or 2% return then (which is funny if you have 2% inflation....), they would also fulfill their civic duty of personal responsibility and shaping the market. The lazyness of paying the bank to decide on investments is backfiring as we see now.

You know they will, the EU wanting an army just got scarier no

No.

Surprise surprise, vending machines are locked down, nobody has acces to their money despite it being their own money. The unelected international-socialists will never give up, the political union muss sein

Yes, that's absolutely correct, the socialist banks will never give up their schemes of making bad investments, paying high bonuses and then socializing their losses among all the socialist fiscally conservative money savers. And to think that their owners are unelected just adds insult to injury.

[Fragony]

Mock it all you want, you must be reading quality media

[Andres]

@Husar , it's a question of trust. In Belgium (as in the rest of the EU if I'm not mistaken), the state guarantuees money in a savings account up to an amount of 100.000,00 €. So, if the bank falls, 100.000,00 € of the money you had with that bank is safe.

This gives people a (probably virtual/fake, but still) feeling of a savings account being, well, save. Just taking 6,75 % (below 100.000,00 € in savings) or 9,9 % (over 100.000,00 € in savings), like Cyrpus does now, is a serious breach of trust. What was promised yesterday is now being violated and the Cypriotic people didn't even get a chance to make adjustments, like investing in something else.

Also, who are you to tell people what they should do with their money? It's money they earned and where they already payed taxes on. You don't have anything to say about it; nanny state doesn't need to tell me what I should with my money. Besides, our governments, with their huge deficits, are not very well placed to give me financial advice. I'm not the one swimming in debt, the government should perhaps take lessons from me instead of me from them.

The 100.000,00 € treshold is too low. Sure, for a young guy like you, 100.000,00 € seems like a lot of money. But look at it from somebody aged 60, close to his retirement. We have a grey population. You can no longer count on the government to ensure you a reasonable living standard once you retired (allthough they should, the bloody bastards, given the insane amounts I pay every month on social security), so you'll need savings of your own. The man who worked his butt off every day for 40 years is now being robbed of 9,9 % of the money he saved; money he counted on to be able to maintain his living standard after his retirement. It's money he needs and that he has only because he lived under his means for 40 years. It's his reward, for being careful. And now you take away 10 % off it? It's a disgrace.

Money must roll? Don't keep it at a savings account? Pump it into the economy? Isn't it my god given right to do with my own money (what's left after paying crazy amounts of taxes, so I already fullfilled my duty to society, thank you very much) whatever the hell I want? Besides, it is my intention to pump it into the economy. After my retirement. Because I'll have to since the government, malgré me paying plenty of social security, can't ensure me a decent living standard after retirement.

First they tell you to put your money in a savings account where it's save and then they rob 10 % of it. Just like that. What message does that send to the European population? I'll tell you. The message is: "transfer your money to banks outside the EU, because you can't trust us."

The risk with this sort of decision is a serious capital drain for the entire EU. Or is the next step a 90 % tax for transferring money to a bank account outside the EU?

They're playing with fire.

[Andres]

I know, but the banks are obviously not investing it well and waste it all or they wouldn't be in trouble.
People should take up personal responsibility and invest the money themselves, not only do they get more than 1 or 2% return then (which is funny if you have 2% inflation....), they would also fulfill their civic duty of personal responsibility and shaping the market. The lazyness of paying the bank to decide on investments is backfiring as we see now.

We count on our governments to make sure banks become more trustworthy again. Instead, banks and governments work together to rob us even more. How long do you think you can get away with that? How long before you'll see normally decent, working people raising kids, coming out on the streets demanding justice? Do you expect people will stay cool and rational if you just rob them off their money?

As we speak, millions of Europeans require food aid. Food distribution by the Red Cross in Europe is at its' highest level since the end of World War II.

People who are starving and are getting robbed by their own governments won't stay calm and rational for long. When you're hungry and being robbed, you no longer care about whose fault it is. You turn into a creature that lusts for blood. Hunger is food for war.

They're dumb teenagers playing with fire.

Yes, that's absolutely correct, the socialist banks will never give up their schemes of making bad investments, paying high bonuses and then socializing their losses among all the socialist fiscally conservative money savers. And to think that their owners are unelected just adds insult to injury.

That's indeed absolutely correct and exactly what is happening now, saying and writing March 18th 2013.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What a strange concept - that the state might guarantee your money!

Andres is fundamentally right - for the last half decade we've all watched our incomes and opportunities decrease, now the EU actually wants to actively steal the money we've already paid taxes on?

I'm not sure if this is Nazi Germany or Orwell's 1984.

[Greyblades]

Well... crap. Why do we have a party to leave the union and not one to get the guys who are running the European union replaced for incompetence

[gaelic cowboy]

What a strange concept - that the state might guarantee your money!

it's not strange if you want to have a banking system with a good velocity of money

Andres is fundamentally right - for the last half decade we've all watched our incomes and opportunities decrease, now the EU actually wants to actively steal the money we've already paid taxes on?

I'm not sure if this is Nazi Germany or Orwell's 1984.

this actually undermines trust in banking and encourages people to withdraw all deposits, it's crazy stuff at a time they need cypriots to SAVE money.

Therefore I say it's Orwellian