To big an Island

[Leão magno]

Just reviewing the previews (thanks foot!) I noticed how many regions are in British Islands! Is the team really planning to give the Pritanoi so many expansion territory or is this just the wip? If it really is the intention to put so many cities in British islands´what would be the motives while so many other places would make good use od extra regions?

[bobbin]

The British Isles have the same number of provinces as they did in EB (8). they have just been rearranged.

[Leão magno]

Even there, it seemed a little bit too much didn't it? (Personal opinion) :)

[bobbin]

Even there, it seemed a little bit too much didn't it? (Personal opinion) :)

Not really, the population of Britain is estimated to be somewhere around 2-4 million people by 150BC, if you include Ireland, which historically has had about half the population of Britain you get a total of 3-6 million.
Compare this with the population of Roman Italy (everything south of the Po Valley) at the start of the 2nd Punic War (218BC) which was around 4 million.

My point being that the British Isle were not some sparsely populated backwater as most people think, 8 provinces is perfectly justifiable.

[vartan]

Nice. Britain had the same population in 150BC as it did before the Normans came ashore. Who would have figured? (The question is: Why?)

[bobbin]

There was a major population crash at the end of the Roman period, probably linked with the Plague of Justinian.
After that the island became something of a war zone, first between the Roman-British populations and the incoming Angles and Saxons, and then between the Anglo-Saxons, Danes and Vikings.
These wars were a lot bigger than anything that went on during pre Roman times and so a lot more disruptive to the islands infrastructure, which would have hampered any population recovery.

[Ichon]

Not really, the population of Britain is estimated to be somewhere around 2-4 million people by 150BC, if you include Ireland, which historically has had about half the population of Britain you get a total of 3-6 million.
Compare this with the population of Roman Italy (everything south of the Po Valley) at the start of the 2nd Punic War (218BC) which was around 4 million.

My point being that the British Isle were not some sparsely populated backwater as most people think, 8 provinces is perfectly justifiable.

Britain reached a population of 3-4 million under Roman rule is widely accepted. I've not heard that was the level in 150 BC though. I thought that is more likely after 100 AD or at least 250 years later when most of Europe had also increased in population either with a warming period or under the pax romana or whatever it is attributed to.

Not sure I would buy that Britain achieved a population density equal to intensively agriculturalized Italy in 150 BC. Just curious what this is based on?

[vartan]

Not sure I would buy that Britain achieved a population density equal to intensively agriculturalized Italy in 150 BC. Just curious what this is based on?

"Intensively agriculturalized Italy" in 150 BCE would support a higher population than Britain. Why a density comparison? Drainage in Italy isn't the problem it is in Britain.

[bobbin]

Britain reached a population of 3-4 million under Roman rule is widely accepted. I've not heard that was the level in 150 BC though. I thought that is more likely after 100 AD or at least 250 years later when most of Europe had also increased in population either with a warming period or under the pax romana or whatever it is attributed to.

Not sure I would buy that Britain achieved a population density equal to intensively agriculturalized Italy in 150 BC. Just curious what this is based on?

Cunliffe gives an estimate of 2-4 million for 150 BC and 4-6 million for the height of the Roman era, this is based on the huge increase in the number of settlements being found which have pushed up the population estimates dramatically.

Also it isn't the same density, the 4 million figure for Roman Italy is from 218 BC, thats 68 years before so it would have grown during that time.
Roman Italy in 218 BC was also considerably smaller in area and ariable land than Britain, not to mention that it experienced more population loss due to war and disease that Britain would have.

[Leão magno]

Not really, the population of Britain is estimated to be somewhere around 2-4 million people by 150BC, if you include Ireland, which historically has had about half the population of Britain you get a total of 3-6 million.
Compare this with the population of Roman Italy (everything south of the Po Valley) at the start of the 2nd Punic War (218BC) which was around 4 million.

My point being that the British Isle were not some sparsely populated backwater as most people think, 8 provinces is perfectly justifiable.

I respect that, but the numbers shown are 68 years distant one another as you already mentioned so it makes it dificult to compare, but I respect your point of view. what I am questioning is in terms of importance! I believe that many other areas were as populated and more important in global terms... I mean isn't there any other region in mediterrain, Egypt, middle or far east that would take advantage of those cities? Not to speak Germania, Greece, Thrace, etc? So What was, lets say... Irelands importance in that time frame, especially in the very begining of it, and let me clarify that I only ask that because I am ignorant in that art of the world history. But I can tell a lot of Sicilian, Iberian, Italian Peninsula and African importance.

[Arjos]

On my personal note there's no such thing as "unimportant" in history...
As for regions what they need to represent is the population, iirc Ireland in EBII will have only one region, that's quite a drawback, still it's pretty hard to cope with scarse information and the game's limitation...
But the British Isle must have a decent number of settlements in order to give them a comparable demographic weight as they had at that time...

[bobbin]

I respect that, but the numbers shown are 68 years distant one another as you already mentioned so it makes it dificult to compare, but I respect your point of view. what I am questioning is in terms of importance! I believe that many other areas were as populated and more important in global terms... I mean isn't there any other region in mediterrain, Egypt, middle or far east that would take advantage of those cities? Not to speak Germania, Greece, Thrace, etc? So What was, lets say... Irelands importance in that time frame, especially in the very begining of it, and let me clarify that I only ask that because I am ignorant in that art of the world history. But I can tell a lot of Sicilian, Iberian, Italian Peninsula and African importance.

We were able to redistribute provinces to the needed areas without having to cut any from the British Isles, simple as that. Also we try not to think of it in global terms, we try to represent each area as well as we can, not choose one over the other.

Ireland was quite important in its local region, it only gets one proper region though, the rest is part of the Eremos province, to represent the difficulty of controlling parts of the island (the highlands of Scotland also get this treatment).

[Iraklis]

As far as i recall the EB team has stated that permanent forts will be depicting importand citys which because of the limitations of the engine could not be added as provinces. It is posible that some of the citys stated on the map are simply that, permanent forts. (corect me if i am wrong and sorry for the typos)

[Brennus]

Leave the British Isles alone, they are lovely.