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  1. #1

    Default Re: The Caravel Mod

    Thank you very much for this intersting account of your campaign Belisario

    As far as the weather is concerned i did some initial minor changes for winter (thought not to take it too far too quickly) and played some in campaign. I don't think that rain in lush that i played, became incredibly more frequent, but when it did, it was more than drizzling and this i liked. I played a few battles in temperate that has the harshest weather settings. Again, all i can tell is that rain when it came was much more than a drizzle, and that visibility was also suitably and atmospherically reduced with the intensity of the rain. I only altered the precipitation(rain) and the fog vanlues for winter, and most in the climates that one would expect it to: lush and temperate. Also increased it somewhat for arid in winter time - it was too little before. I did not alter the summer numbers at all, they seemed ok to me. I don't know how snowfall is increased. It could be tied to precipitation (for snowy days) or it could be tied to the temperature numbers. It seems that the armor-in-desert-and-in-snow effect has to do with the temperature.

    As a matter of fact, there are far more desert and temperate maps in the Caravel mod than in vanilla (where lush was the dominant terrain). In many mountain crosses and in Germany/Eastern Europe, temperate is the predominant terrain. Lush is present in the in-between arid and temperate provinces (Hungary, Venice, Bulgaria) and in France and England. In the near-east, in desert provinces, all province routes are made desert ones. In vanilla, the Crusaer states provinces (palestine, tripoli, antioch) have arid maps in the routes that connect them. All these are now desert maps and so they favor the native Muslim factions as they should. Similarly in Russia there is much more temperate terrain than in vanilla. In addition there are no river crossing maps. There were two reasons for this decision:
    a) The provinces are too big (the size of countries in most cases) for so many river battles to occurconsistently as in vanilla
    b) The AI does not "know" that the map he is invading will be a river crossing map, and so often he marches to his doom, as he does not bring the proper troops to attack the crossing and the player can keep him off and massacre his good stacks with a few crossbows/arbs and spears.
    In this way, the plans teh AI makes are alwys suited and the player does have to fight the best AI stacks in open battle more often than not

    Indeed, its the building tech trees, dependencies and calibrating the AI choices by correct prices/maintenance costs/dependency-availability at the various castle levels that in turn affect stack composition that is the main work i've done, aiming for a vanilla experience without crappy/rubbish stacks and without the AI waisting money in building options that get him nothing.

    To make an example, the Byzantines in vanilla could build all levels of the Town Watch line, while the only building that was actually getting them something was the 1st in line. All the other upgrades of the building with their many turns to build and cost in forins were getting the Byzs nothing. However, many times the BYz AI would go on and build it to the point it could (level3 of the line, and one after the other) in Constantinople, essentially wasting florins and investement time (that could be crucial at the early game). In the mod the Byzs have only the first level and so they do not waste money and investment time; rather they proceed to build things that contribute something to their game. That isn't to say that the tech tree is simplified to the point there are no direction choices anymore (the main choice for Catholics for example is, as in vanilla, should i go for the higher feudal troops or for the advanced militia troops?). Only redundant branches of the tech tree have been pruned and on an individual faction basis.

    Another such example is the trading buildings in landlocked provinces. A major waste since the landlocked provinces as we all know do not worth more than level1 trader. Hence i tied higher traders to ports that are themselves tied to coastal provinces which ensures that merchants, guilds and master merchants are build by the AI factions where they are needed.

    The ship use effect is made by the loyalty:180 effect mostly. I was astounded by how well the AI used ships and his navies in combination once in that setting and so decided to "strongly reccomend it" and work on the mod with that in mind.

    Thank you very much for the offer Raz

    As a matter of fact, i have one question, in a bit of an aesthetic change i would like to make. It seems quite complex to me though, and so, as it is an extra aesthetic thing, i did not dare attempt it. I would like to replace the army and faction leader only campaign map pieces for the Orthodox factions with the ones from the Viking campaign - that suit the bill for Orthodox better in armour and attire. However, the game does not offer a special folder Orthodox category but rather lumps the Orthodox with the Catholics together as Christians. Muslims and Pagans get their own folders for map pieces, but Orthodox don't. If there is a way to make that change, i would be interested in making it part of the mod. I thought that its possible there isn't such a way, as the exe might not have it in it to reckognise an additional, extra category. On the other hand it may be possible that it does, as long as one places the folders/files correctly at the appropriate place. But i was too chickened to try it on my own :)
    Last edited by gollum; 01-22-2011 at 12:36.
    The Caravel Mod: a (very much) improvedvanilla MTW/VI v2.1 early campaign

    Please make sure you have the latest version (v3.3)
    Since v3.3 the Caravel Mod includes customised campaigns for huge and default unit settings

    Download v3.3
    Info & Discussion Thread

  2. #2
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Caravel Mod

    You can make your own folder and let the game know of it. Check the vikings.txt in the startpos folder. You'll find line like: <SetMapTexturesSubdir:: "vikings">
    Put line like this in EARLY.TXT and copy your desired files from vikings folder to your own folder. I don't remember how the game choose the right pics for certain culture but you have something to experiment with.
    ---- EDIT ----
    All you need is to create "Orthodox" folder inside the campmap\pieces\Units folder. I've just done it and copied all "ARMY_" files from the vikings folder. Works without problems. Byzantines looking like filthy vikings - I don't think so. But If you like it....

    BTW I'm curios if we can set 5th culture. Originally there are 4: CHRISTIAN_CULTURE, MUSLIM_CULTURE, ORTHODOX_CULTURE, PAGAN_CULTURE but I've found something called GENERIC_CULTURE. I don't know if it's fully usable (like CUSTOM0-9 entries for units) or just a set of base parameters but it's worth to check.
    Last edited by Stazi; 01-18-2011 at 16:21.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Caravel Mod

    Those weather changes sound like a more intense experience of the battlefield, maybe this will remind us the rainy maps of Shogun. It would be nice to see more snowy maps, I hope you find the parameter. I totally agree with the removal of river maps, and more desert maps is always good, I love desert battles :)

    I've played a few turns more this night and as I said above the Aragonese declared war on the Egyptians. I launched two victorious crusades against Granada and Morocco, and defeated them on the sea. The Egyptians had strong armies but an important factor played against them, the sultan was isolated in Ireland (they also had conquered Scotland and Wales). So after I attacked them, their provinces suffered a severe loyalty penalty with the consequent civil war and the reappearance of the Almohads in Tunisia, Algeria and Cyrenaica. Now I'm the main superpower of the game in terms of army and cash, so I reached the point when a campaign begins to lose interest for me, however it costs me a lot more effort. Maybe I'll use the -ian to play other faction in this same campaign.

    I would like to do a minor criticism after today's experience. As in vanilla, the possibility of silly invasions is present and AI factions can suffer penalty for having their leader isolated. This occurred not only to the Egyptians in my campaign but also to the Byzantines which had all their royal line isolated in Crete. How do you think that this could be solved?

  4. #4
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Caravel Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisario View Post
    I would like to do a minor criticism after today's experience. As in vanilla, the possibility of silly invasions is present and AI factions can suffer penalty for having their leader isolated. This occurred not only to the Egyptians in my campaign but also to the Byzantines which had all their royal line isolated in Crete. How do you think that this could be solved?
    If I remember Caravel's trials correctly, the more extreme solution is the removal of ships and the addition of land bridges to every island. Maybe just add the landbridges, but keep the boats?
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  5. #5

    Default Re: The Caravel Mod

    The best solution to this is the removal of all shipping - otherwise this will always be a problem. The Sultan could have still been isolated in Ireland even with a landbridge to britain present.
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

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  6. #6

    Default Re: The Caravel Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel View Post
    The best solution to this is the removal of all shipping - otherwise this will always be a problem. The Sultan could have still been isolated in Ireland even with a landbridge to britain present.
    You are right, but IIRC Gollum don't sympathise with the removal of ships. Shipping and sea trade certainly add a nice flavour to the game. I know this matter has been extensively discussed in the past.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Caravel Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisario View Post
    You are right, but IIRC Gollum don't sympathise with the removal of ships. Shipping and sea trade certainly add a nice flavour to the game. I know this matter has been extensively discussed in the past.
    Yes I believe gollum is against the idea, I mentioned it as it's the only real solution to the problem of finding someone like the Almohad Khalifa stranded in Ireland. The land bridges don't really help with this, it's the sea travel itself that is the root cause. It occurs because the AI does not consider the implications of heading to a province by sea that will most likely result in the army being cut off (due to the inevitable destruction of the port). When it comes to the AI there is no distinction between two provinces linked up from port to port by a number of ships and a neighbouring province.

    There are other workarounds, such as breaking the sea area into two or three zones, but from experience, this results in a lot more ships and can have other undesirable results. Artificial constraints like that also just feel wrong and don't make much sense. Trade is also severely limited to the extent that it makes it almost pointless.

    It depends on the individual, some people just enjoy the shipping side of things, whereas I prefer the more solid territorial integrity that comes from removing it. The bloated and unbalanced trade income problem is then removed as is the potential for silly AI invasions and abuse of crusades by the player. It's far more interesting and challenging as crusades have to take the land route, which also prevents the AI from sending them to ridiculous places en route.
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

    "The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis

  8. #8
    Beauty hunter Senior Member Raz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Caravel Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    You can make your own folder and let the game know of it. Check the vikings.txt in the startpos folder. You'll find line like: <SetMapTexturesSubdir:: "vikings">
    Put line like this in EARLY.TXT and copy your desired files from vikings folder to your own folder. I don't remember how the game choose the right pics for certain culture but you have something to experiment with.
    ---- EDIT ----
    All you need is to create "Orthodox" folder inside the campmap\pieces\Units folder. I've just done it and copied all "ARMY_" files from the vikings folder. Works without problems. Byzantines looking like filthy vikings - I don't think so. But If you like it....
    HA! Beat me to it, I'd tested this just yesterday but didn't get a chance to reply. This is true, simply create a folder in the campmap\pieces\units directory and name it Orthodox, then just add the pieces you want. I also have reason to believe that you can create a whole new sub-directory with the pieces for your mod (if you want to) using the SetMapTexturesSubdir in the startpos.

    Just like with the Viking campaign, the subdirectory is "Vikings", you can add your own. But with this you'll need to add a host of new stuff, such as adding in portraits as well as campaign map textures and what not.
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