The US State of the Union message for 2011: Thoughts and Commentary

[a completely inoffensive name]

Congress was able to pass an unpopular bill last year, despite the wailing/gnashing of teeth/cries of socialism by their constituents and media. Balancing the budget is a more worthwhile endeavor, why no progress?

That is overly simplified. The public wanted health care reform, only the extremely ideologically blinded can claim that somehow the American system is the best system in the world for taking care of those who live within out borders. When the battle over health care started, the public was enthusiastic about it, it was because of the 24/7 slander, lies and manipulated statistics coming from the Republican side that drove public opinion of it down.

Because we all know that the public disapproved of it because there was clearly death panels in it.

[drone]

That is overly simplified. The public wanted health care reform, only the extremely ideologically blinded can claim that somehow the American system is the best system in the world for taking care of those who live within out borders. When the battle over health care started, the public was enthusiastic about it, it was because of the 24/7 slander, lies and manipulated statistics coming from the Republican side that drove public opinion of it down.

Because we all know that the public disapproved of it because there was clearly death panels in it.

I imagine the public wants a balanced budget, as only the most financially inept can't see the trouble coming without action. And when it comes to the solutions (higher taxes, reduced entitlements), there will be a lot of people complaining about the proposals (hopefully these include death panels, for the lulz). I'm not seeing how the public's reaction will be any different, and this is way more important than health care reform.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I imagine the public wants a balanced budget, as only the most financially inept can't see the trouble coming without action. And when it comes to the solutions (higher taxes, reduced entitlements), there will be a lot of people complaining about the proposals (hopefully these include death panels, for the lulz). I'm not seeing how the public's reaction will be any different, and this is way more important than health care reform.

No, the public claims to want a balanced budget, but their voting habits betray their real feelings. Baby boomers don't want you to change anything, because they want their entitlements. Health care reform reached where statistically more than 1 in 10 people had no health care, at that point, people really do start losing their ****. Right now, no one has really lost anything because we keep borrowing, so all the talk from people is just that, talk.

[Xiahou]

That is overly simplified.

Sort of like glibly blaming "the public" for the national debt.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Sort of like glibly blaming "the public" for the national debt.

Not really considering I have explained why I have said the public is to blame for the national debt.

[Xiahou]

Not really considering I have explained why I have said the public is to blame for the national debt.

You mean this?

No, when I say people I really mean the public. Congress does what the public wants, which is lower taxes, more goodies. The reason why politicians don't stand up is because quite frankly, no one wants to hear it. In other countries, the difference is that people are receptive to the idea of taking on more taxes.

Here is a an example of Europe, the UK:

UK politicans: "We think we might have to raise taxes."
UK public: "Well if this is a temporary burden so that we can reduce our large debt levels, then I guess I can accept this reality."

US politicans: "We think we might have to raise taxes."
US public: "UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH TAXES!?!?!? GOVERNMENT SOCIALISM IN MY COUNTRY, NO!!!!!! KILL THE WELFARE QUEENS INSTEAD!"


Courage is wasted when those you are trying to lead don't want a leader in the first place.

Forgive me for not being convinced by this. Since Tellos seems unwilling, do you have any kind of evidence to back this up or is this simply your personal impression? The US certainly isn't the only country swimming in red ink- last I've seen the UK has a higher debt to GDP ratio than the US. Where are the masses of UK citizens clamoring for higher taxes?

[Greyblades]

Pfft... you realy expect in any circumstance anyone would be clamouring for taxes?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Forgive me for not being convinced by this. Since Tellos seems unwilling, do you have any kind of evidence to back this up or is this simply your personal impression? The US certainly isn't the only country swimming in red ink- last I've seen the UK has a higher debt to GDP ratio than the US. Where are the masses of UK citizens clamoring for higher taxes?

Where is the UK Tea Party holding signs like this:


oh wait, they don't have one.

[Xiahou]

oh wait, they don't have one.

Guess again.

Additionally... Budget 2010: Three quarters of voters back spending cuts not tax rises – Guardian/ICM poll

I'm still waiting for some proof.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Guess again.

Is this the same British guy that Furn linked to who believes that Reagan was the greatest man in the world and that his country sucks full of socialism? Why do people keep bringing this guy up?

Additionally... Budget 2010: Three quarters of voters back spending cuts not tax rises – Guardian/ICM poll

I'm still waiting for some proof.

And how is what you said proof of the other way? Omg, shocker, people don't want to pay taxes. See what Greyblades said. That isn't refuting what I said. The fact is, they voted for the Tories who has a leader which said before the election, we may need to raise taxes.

Never, ever in present day America would Americans ever vote for anyone who would say public, my policy may involve an increase in taxes. Bush Sr.'s popularity jump was solely because his campaign motto consisted of one core element:


His downfall which led to him to being a one term president was solely because the American people were so outraged that *gasp* he raised taxes!

[HoreTore]

You mean this?
Forgive me for not being convinced by this. Since Tellos seems unwilling, do you have any kind of evidence to back this up or is this simply your personal impression? The US certainly isn't the only country swimming in red ink- last I've seen the UK has a higher debt to GDP ratio than the US. Where are the masses of UK citizens clamoring for higher taxes?

I can't speak for the financial acrobats of Britainland, but I have a clear example from Vikingland:

Our current government was elected for the first time in 2005. What was (one of) their main slogan(s)? Raise taxes. The previous government had lowered them, the current one was elected on the basis of raising them back up again. And it wasn't some last minute thing either, it was nailed into the foundation of the three-party alliance which was in February, IIRC, while the electon was in october.

Norwegians had a choice between two clear cut blocks; one that promised higher taxes, one that promised to lower them. And I along with more than 50% of the votes chose high taxes.