Is this forum...

[Subotan]

...really for me or for you guys?

Now of course I do not mean exclusively me vs. everybody else, but rather as a more general term to cover people who don't feel, or who are just aren't members of the Exclusive Gentleman's Club known as TotalWar.Org. For you see, I have never, outside of the Gameroom and EB Tavern (And even then that particular institution was defined by its rejection of what I'm about to discuss) really felt "part" of the .Org. What do I mean by part of the .Org you ask? It's simple; the Exclusive Gentleman's Club that defines itself by its rejection of people who are not already in it.

Surely that is too harsh I hear you say. Surely we are a friendly and welcoming bunch to newbies. Well, yes, as individuals. I personally do not have issues with most, if not all people in the .Org. I'm sure that IRL you're a bunch of nice guys. But the .Org is not. The .Org, outside of the Gameroom (When I refer to the .Org in the rest of this essay, it will be excluding the gameroom, as the gameroom is essentially a forum unto itself and which I love to bits), is fundamentally conservative in its outlook towards newcomers and people who challenge the rules and customs which serve to drive newcomers away, and even just people who disagree with the current direction of the .Org (I.e. a sad lonely death) and want to change it.

For example: ACIN posted a thread that was a joke, and essentially a pretty cutting satire of the prevalence of obnoxious girl threads that have spread like a fungus throughout the .Org recently. What was the reaction? Laughter? A compliment for ACIN on his ability to take the Frontroom for a ride (Save me and SFTS)? No, it was an awkward silence that suggested that the readers were confused and made unhappy either by the not-that-complex humour and/or the criticism of the .Org itself for permitting so many threads of that type, followed by a lock for no discernible reason (seeing as it didn't seem anyone else was going to post there anyway).

Another example: I spent an hour writing a 1,000 word essay in the Watchtower commenting on the specific problems that the .Org faced, and anticitpating such a problem, I summarised each two hundred word block into five word phrases in case people saw the text and were daunted by it. The response? One member who had not been here for some time and was horrified by the sickness within the .Org engaged in a discussion, and one completely wrong comment from a muppet that in itself generated more comment and controversy than my essay did. This is turn reflects a wider trend that I have often felt my posts in the backroom to be ignored (Save by a few, notably Furunculus, Beskar and fragony and probably IA and PVC), for whatever reason I genuinely do not know. Of course, the essay in the watchtower mentioned was ignored, to be replaced by a discussion about avatars. As if that would magically solve everything.

And you know what, I am convinced that the reason that the .Org is in decline is because those who are most committed and should be doing the most to save it have absolutely no interest in rescuing it. The .Org has changed from a forum about TW games, to a forum where a bunch of 20-something+ guys who sorta-know each other hang out and chat. It's like an Exclusive Gentleman's Drinking Club, only without the influence/power and without the booze, meaning it defines itself through its little in-jokes (GAH, Camels, everything after M:TW is utter crap etc.) and through its rejection of any means to change the situation. I mean, look at how much controversy there has been over avatars, sigs MORE than 400 px in length and the constant discussion tha goes nowhere about Senior/Junior members! That isn't something which would be as drawn out or as opposed on any normal forum - the admin would just say "Right, here's what you're getting BANG". How can any meaningful change be attempted or even wanted by those same people?

In short, it is pretty obvious that Org is doomed, those who could do the most to change that don't care and it feels a lot of the time like I (As well as others, though I cannot speak for them) are merely tolerated as opposed to welcomed.

Oh, and I deliberately posted this in the Frontroom, as putting in the Watchtower would mean it would get overrun by banal and pointless discussion about avatars or something daft all over again, and because it is much easier for all of you to ignore if it is in the Watchtower.

[Subotan]

Oh, and before anyone says "Doesn't really seem worth wasting our time over--heard it all before, etc.", maybe you've heard it all before because there IS a problem and you are completely failing to even acknowledge it let alone address it.

[Togakure]

It seems ACIN has chosen to share private messages with you, and you are choosing to dramatize things further. Ok, noted; it is your prerogative. But not in here. This belongs in the Watchtower.

[Subotan]

If I had wanted to, I could have made this incredibly dramatic, yet I chose not to since I knew that that tired old excuse would have been easier to use to dodge the criticisms of the current set-up. These are also not concerns that exist solely because of the lock of ACIN's thread, but problems which have existed for a very long time and that I and others have been aware of for a substantial amount of that. It is not something that should be brushed under the rug by sticking it in the morgue of the one post a day Watchtower.

EDIT: Ah crap, you decided to ignore the concerns that the lack of traffic would mean that this and the problems it discusses would get ignored if stuffed into the Watchtower. How expected.

[Togakure]

This has always been the designated place for discussions about the Org and how it is or should be. Yes, you should have expected it. Threads of this nature that appear in the Front Room will be moved here.

[Subotan]

So it's the rule because it's the rule? What possible negative consequences could arise from posting it in the Frontroom? Clutter surely is not a problem, given that apart from the "How do I get to have sex with X girl" threads the frontroom is practically comatose.

[TosaInu]

The .Org has changed from a forum about TW games, to a forum where a bunch of 20-something+ guys who sorta-know each other hang out and chat.

Several hundreds daily (registered users, not guests) is a more likely figure, not all of them are very active posters.

[Populus Romanus]

To add in the perspective of a new member, I agree with Subotan completely. It feels like I am ignored all the time in the Tavern. The Frontroom may not be "dead" to those privledged few who seem to run the place, but to everyone else it is.

[Rhyfelwyr]

To add in the perspective of a new member, I agree with Subotan completely. It feels like I am ignored all the time in the Tavern. The Frontroom may not be "dead" to those privledged few who seem to run the place, but to everyone else it is.

But other people here have said the same thing, even people that others thought were part of that "priviledged few".

Who would you actually consider to be in that category?

[Populus Romanus]

Anyone who either starts or posts a lot in any of the girlfriend threads.

[pevergreen]

Anyone who either starts or posts a lot in any of the girlfriend threads.

Whos been posting them?

Prussian: Still a new guy. Basically all he does is the girl threads. Also some arena talk
Hooah: Been around a while
Csargo: Big mafia player
The Stranger: Cool guy, 'son' of a former Frontroom mod.

If you really think that the people that start the girlfriend threads are part of some elite group, go make one yourself.

[drone]

Anyone who either starts or posts a lot in any of the girlfriend threads.

These threads are a new fad, back in the heyday you would never see threads like that. The Frontroom is for light-hearted conversation: travel, food/drink, music/TV/movies, sports, hobbies, man-toys, silliness, and the Babe Thread. Look back at the threads from 3-4 years ago, great stuff, lots of variety.

[Togakure]

To add in the perspective of a new member, I agree with Subotan completely. It feels like I am ignored all the time in the Tavern. The Frontroom may not be "dead" to those privledged few who seem to run the place, but to everyone else it is.

[tone = surprised; inquisitive; not accusatory or critical at all]:

Does it seem like some are being favored? How so? You can PM me or one of the other staff if you aren't comfortable articulating this here. I've already commented about feeling ignored, but I will add this:

There have been a lot of silly threads in the Front Room lately, basically outhouses for a few who enjoy behaving as 'trolls.' I guess it brings pleasure to some to dupe others who tend to take things at face value, humor at their expense, perhaps a sense of intellectual superiority. Sometimes this isn't really malicious, but I do know the difference between parody and mockery, and mockery of fellow Orgahs will not be tolerated in the FR.

Personally, I would close these kinds of threads when trolling becomes apparent, but because of the complaints of late, I've been taking as much of a 'hands-off' approach as I deem possible while still upholding Org policy. So long as the language is kept clean and there is no bullying or personal attacks, I've let a lot of things ride that don't sit very well with me. If this is not a popular approach, please speak up and be heard. Heh, perhaps we should tighten up further in the FR, and create a "Troll's Den" subforum for those who enjoy this form of entertainment. The bottom line is, discourse in the FR should be lighthearted and fun, PG-13.

Some have complained that the staff are too strict and it's "killing the forum." When I see so many lurkers looking in, but not posting, I can't help but wonder if the real problem is that they are displeased with the nature of the posts/posters that frequent the place, and hence, don't participate. This is why I didn't post much until recently. Perhaps a significant part of the problem lies not with staff .... Agree? Speak up!

[Strike For The South]

The frontroom is meant to be like a pub

I don't care what you post there, even joke threads as long as you are not hiding behind some bull e persona

That cheapens the whole feel of the place

my good for nothing 2 pence

[Togakure]

I always thought of the Backroom as the pub, and the Front Room as more of a milkshake diner where the kids can go too and have fun.

[tone=smiling and lighthearted]:

"my good for nothing 2 pence?" What was that about a "bull e persona?" You know well that your pence carries weight here, because it's good for something--and on both sides of the "fence."

[Fragony]

To add in the perspective of a new member, I agree with Subotan completely. It feels like I am ignored all the time in the Tavern. The Frontroom may not be "dead" to those privledged few who seem to run the place, but to everyone else it is.

Just post, there are a few running jokes you might not get, but if it matters welcome

[Populus Romanus]

After putting a lot of thought into this, I believe I have come up with the best all-encompassing definition for who is an elitist yet forwarded:
You are an Elitist if you deny that there is Elitism on this forum.

[Husar]

After putting a lot of thought into this, I believe I have come up with the best all-encompassing definition for who is an elitist yet forwarded:
You are an Elitist if you deny that there is Elitism on this forum.

That's not true, there is no elitism in this forum.