Gay Pandering

[Fisherking]

I just used the title as a pun to the other thread. I don’t dislike people for there sexual orientation.

But why is it that people who demographically come from and belong to an affluent background seem to think they require taxpayer assistance in forming a social network?

just an example: http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/south_ki.../98070009.html

Any thoughts?

[al Roumi]

That's the middle class all over - knowledgeable and skilled/pushy enough to leverage the state for their own ends. It's the people who don't know that they can or how to who lose out, i.e. the working class.

[Fisherking]

The article complained that the money was spent on racial and gender groups not including gays.

Battered wives, blacks, Amer-Indians, and Hispanics usually tend to be a bit needier than upper middle class predominantly white people, even if they decide to place themselves into a minority group.

It just seems a lot of self promotion and much designed for shock value to me. Gays can’t call themselves an oppressed underclass in economic terms but want money to promote a social agenda.

If they are more deserving than the others they should do something to show it.

[Fragony]

I don't get it either, getting beat up, humiliated, AND abused without charge, you are putting us Dutchies out of business

[PanzerJaeger]

But why is it that people who demographically come from and belong to an affluent background seem to think they require taxpayer assistance in forming a social network?

Any thoughts?

Possibly because they have been harassed, mistreated, and oppressed through the taxpayer-funded government for years. Similar efforts have been aimed at African and Native Americans.

The only problem I have with these efforts in a broad sense is that they never seem to end. In many ways, blacks are still a protected class in the eyes of the government nearly 50 years after the Civil Rights Act. At some point, the sins of the past are made up for as best as they can be and you have to move on.

Gays, on the other hand, are still suffering social inequities enforced through the government. In many parts of the country they are second class citizens.

Battered wives, blacks, Amer-Indians, and Hispanics usually tend to be a bit needier than upper middle class predominantly white people, even if they decide to place themselves into a minority group.

Did you know that blacks, natives, hispanics and even poor people can also be gay? Here's another fun fact - no one decides to place themselves into the gay minority.

It just seems a lot of self promotion and much designed for shock value to me. Gays can’t call themselves an oppressed underclass in economic terms but want money to promote a social agenda.

In many states, one can be fired for being gay. That's why I would think some gays might want money and/or federal support - to counter discrimination and try to change attitudes.

However, I'm not so sure we should take your premise at face value. What exactly are gays demanding from the federal government? This guy - who is apparently only a small time activist in a small community - seems to only be suggesting that a portion of money already allocated for social programs be spent on gay-related issues. That hardly seems unreasonable.

If they are more deserving than the others they should do something to show it.

Are you serious? Do you know what life is like for a gay person? It is the only classifiable group of people that I can think of besides white, protestant males that is still socially acceptable to ridicule and discriminate against.

"Gay", in itself is a pejorative. You can get away with saying "Don't be a homo, be a man.". Try saying "Don't be a n-word, get your work done."

If anyone deserves federal assistance - and I don't really know of much demand in the gay community for huge government grants or anything of the sort, the author of your article just made some vague points about including gays in diversity funding - it is the gays.

[Strike For The South]

Because the same government was used to oppress them

[Rhyfelwyr]

I'm the only white, Anglo-Saxon, heterosexual, lower middle-class Protestant male left on the planet, and the entire world is a conspiracy that is so intricate it is against both my kind and myself personally at the same time.

[Fisherking]

Gays have the same rights as everyone else in the US and in a few locals more.

Which States violate Federal Civil Rights laws by denying people jobs on the basis of sexual preference?

As for social inequities I find that unlikely. I don’t know of any forms requiring people to list sexual preference nor how one tells by looking at people. You may discern ethnic or racial groups or gender on sight but not sexual preference.

Most of their groups and agencies are for the purpose of activism and social networking. How does that benefit the public at large?

Many groups have been systematically victimized over the past and some prejudices remain yet no other group is more invisible to society as gays. They can come from any walk of life but unless you ask or they have reason to say you cannot tell.
It is not that as individuals they are unaccepted or unacceptable as is the case with other groups.

Even as a group they are excepted in all but their own eyes. There it would seem they more wish to be first among equals, so to speak, and seek special status.
Much is perhaps a new found freedom to flaunt their sexuality. Some may enjoy shocking the more stayed types. Often as a group they come across as spoiled children always wanting more.

I once heard someone say that it had gone from the love never spoken to the love that just won’t shut up.
People tend to have more of a problem with activism than with sexual proclivity or life style.

But it seems a phenomenon of modern society that nearly everyone seeks victim status.

[drone]

Individually, maybe. I believe the oppression referred to is the gay marriage issue. Rights wrt medical benefits, estate planning, etc. that hetero married couples enjoy.

[PanzerJaeger]

Gays have the same rights as everyone else in the US and in a few locals more.

So do blacks, hispanics, and poor people. Why are they more deserving of social spending?

Which States violate Federal Civil Rights laws by denying people jobs on the basis of sexual preference?

In 29 states an employee can be fired for being gay with no legal recourse.

That means a manager can say "you're doing a great job, the company is doing fine, but I don't like your sexual orientation so you are fired".

Now, as a die-hard capitalist, I completely support an employer’s right to fire anyone for anything - as long as it applies to everyone. However, if - as a society - we have decided that a person cannot be fired for a trait he or she has no control over, that too should apply to everyone.

If you cannot be fired for being black and you cannot be fired for being handicapped, then you should not be able to be fired for being gay.

As for social inequities I find that unlikely. I don’t know of any forms requiring people to list sexual preference nor how one tells by looking at people. You may discern ethnic or racial groups or gender on sight but not sexual preference.

You may want to check your local library for this, or any of the many other books on the subject.

Most of their groups and agencies are for the purpose of activism and social networking. How does that benefit the public at large?

What public benefit does the Rainbow Coalition or the NAACP serve?

Also and again, can you provide some more evidence of gay groups asking for federal funding? A quick google search for 'gay federal funding' yielded little other than this story about a Christian group that used federal funds to fight against gay marriage.

Many groups have been systematically victimized over the past and some prejudices remain yet no other group is more invisible to society as gays. They can come from any walk of life but unless you ask or they have reason to say you cannot tell.
It is not that as individuals they are unaccepted or unacceptable as is the case with other groups.

That is not necessarily true. Some gay people have mannerisms that are hard to conceal.

Are you saying that because gay people are more capable of hiding their differences, they deserve less protection/support from the government?

Even as a group they are excepted in all but their own eyes.

What world are you living in? I'm living in the one where gay people are routinely mocked, ostracized, assaulted, and even killed for an inherent trait that they have no control over.

The victimization of gays and lesbians based upon their sexual orientation includes harassment, vandalism, robbery, assault, rape and murder. The location of these crimes is not restricted to dark streets leading from gay establishments. Violence against gays and lesbians occurs everywhere: in schools, the workplace, public places and in the home. Those who commit these acts come from all social/economic backgrounds and represent different age groups (National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, Safety and Fitness Exchange, Lance Bradley and Kevin Berrill, 1986.)

Did you miss the national discussion a few months ago over gay teen suicides, or was that just typical gay people looking for attention by hanging themselves and jumping off bridges?

There it would seem they more wish to be first among equals, so to speak, and seek special status.

Can you elaborate on the special status gays are seeking? I hear a lot about it, but never anything specific.

Much is perhaps a new found freedom to flaunt their sexuality. Some may enjoy shocking the more stayed types. Often as a group they come across as spoiled children always wanting more.

Again, what is it - exactly - that they want that is so radical? Employment protections, the ability to serve in the military, hospital visitation rights... none of these would seem to impart any special status on them.

All you've provided so far is one blog posting where a gay man argues that because gay people pay taxes they are deserving of some of the money spent on diversity initiatives in his community.

I once heard someone say that it had gone from the love never spoken to the love that just won’t shut up.

Do you not see that that - in itself - hints at the social ostracism these people have experienced?

People tend to have more of a problem with activism than with sexual proclivity or life style.

That isn't true at all. Many people have a deep-seated hatred of gay people due to religious and social conditioning.

But it seems a phenomenon of modern society that nearly everyone seeks victim status.

Who is seeking victim status? Ignoring the fact that gay people are not some monolithic 'one', I see little evidence of even the activist groups in Washington seeking victim status.

You seem to be under the influence of the oft-propagated meme of the 'gay agenda' that is used by certain religious types to stir people up. Show me a gay activist that says he wants a social status that puts him in a more advantageous position than straight people. Everything that they want seems to be aimed at simply putting them on an equal footing.

And speaking of gay people always playing the victim - this guy really took his performance seriously.

Shortly after midnight on October 7, 1998, Shepard met Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson at the Fireside Lounge in Laramie, Wyoming. McKinney and Henderson offered Shepard a ride in their car.[4] After Shepard said that he was gay, the two men robbed, pistol-whipped, tortured him and tied him to a fence in a remote, rural area, leaving him to die. According to their court testimony, McKinney and Henderson also discovered his address and intended to burglarize his home. Still tied to the fence, Shepard was discovered 18 hours later by a cyclist, Aaron Kreifels, who initially mistook Shepard for a scarecrow.