Re: Civil War in Libya
Which means that the only real responsible way to aid the rebels (if we choose that) is boots on the grounds. Plausible denial is simply incompatible with responsibility (indeed the whole thing is designed to skirt responsibility).Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
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Re: Civil War in Libya
I say we give the opposition Stingers.
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Re: Civil War in Libya
EDIT: @Tellos
No, it isn't. The support given the most consideration at present is airstrikes and airborne support in general.
Last edited by Viking; 03-07-2011 at 15:37.
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Re: Civil War in Libya
True. What matters is that if we do support the rebels, the only real way to do so that is responsible is a form of direct intervention. (Though I imagine that this will require at least some number of boots on the grounds to finish it.)
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Re: Civil War in Libya
Obama asks Saudi Arabia to airlift guns to rebels
I'm concerned that Secretary Gates is not interested in setting up a no fly zone at this point. I wonder what his pre-requisites would be to warrant that action.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 03-07-2011 at 17:03.
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Re: Civil War in Libya
A case of Lemur's disease: that is the exact same article PJ posted a few posts above...
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Re: Civil War in Libya
crap
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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Re: Civil War in Libya
The ability to do it would be one.
To set up a no-fly zone would first require that all anti-aircraft measures (command and control, radar etc) were taken out. That means bombing the ground. Gaddafi would have half these facilities re-located next to schools within a day, possibly already. I'm sure the Libyan rebels would be jumping with joy seeing the Western powers bombing children for them.
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Re: Civil War in Libya
Even if we could take out the AA, there are still issues with the no-fly zone.
Libya is rather big, patrolling the airspace simply would take a whole lot of resources. And with the military stretched thin as it is, and the budgets looking as they do, I just do not see it happen anytime soon.
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Re: Civil War in Libya
nvm
Last edited by Shibumi; 03-08-2011 at 11:04. Reason: double post
Few are born with it, even fewer know what to do with it.
Re: Civil War in Libya
Getting involved with any side if Libya is not going to end well.
If the side wins we back they're a Western stooge. If it doesn't, the leaders now hate us.
Whoever wins is going to "take off the white gloves" at some point. And we in the oh so pure West like to pretend that war is a clean fight (of course we all turn a blind eye when we're involved). We won't be able to place a news blackout as we would if we were in charge. So, pictures of our "allies" doing probably a long list of "warcrimes" - or prior to the UN, standard acts of war.
We get involved then we'll get blamed for any humanitarian diaster that takes place. If the rules of engagement are only fire if fired upon, then await cries of massacares whilst our troops watched. If more... elexible then await our troops shot "innocents".
No-fly zone is a joke. A great idea for the UN to have a serious debate until all the shooting stops. It's sufficiently complicated to take months to sort out if required.
Let the African Union take the lead in this mess. We could possibly donate some stuff to them to help, but that should really be it.
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Re: Civil War in Libya
How about doing nothing. I agree with Panzer. I think. Our chivalrous rescue attempt of rescuing... who?? Why were our soldiers captured an the evacuees released. Why didn't they bring any marines the Tromp has them on board at all time. I have no idea what's going on anymore. SAS gets caught by rebels Dutch get caught by loyalists. wth
Re: Civil War in Libya
I'm saying naval support, air support with a no-fly zone and arms shipments to the opposition. If we need special forces to take out air defenses, then so be it - get in, get out.
This is what the U.S. military is best at. Gaddafi turning back the tide is not an option, so plan accordingly.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 03-18-2011 at 00:03.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Civil War in Libya
Let them have this wether they succeed or not, at least it will be theirs, would you be very comfortable with finding your destiny if you know it really never really was your own doing, but an artificial construct
Last edited by Fragony; 03-07-2011 at 18:06. Reason: forgot words
Re: Civil War in Libya
I am sure the Dutch are still uncomfortable with that fact that they did not bring the nazis out of the country on their own.
That said, the rebels do actuall ask the West in particular to help them removing the threat from the air.
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