Just wondering...

[Rhyfelwyr]

heh, oh well. I wonder if my St. Patrick's day sig is what inspired the OP (given he mentioned the Tiochfaidh ar la thing)?

[Strike For The South]

I have no problem with catholics

I have a problem with certain members of the Irish dispora whom send money to terrorists so they can feel more Irish at heart *see south Boston* They should've left that pettiness on the boat, but they didn't.

It's not an OMG Protastents keeping me down, Its OMG the catholics are blowing us up

Of course no one does and then they use American institutions to further causes in the old country

I have a nice healthy hate for my English anscetry, why the Irish dispora still clings to erie I can't explain

[gaelic cowboy]

I have a nice healthy hate for my English anscetry, why the Irish dispora still clings to erie I can't explain

Well to be fair Stike there are still lots of first generation immigrants in South Boston so there is your connection, also you don't have to worry too much about US money funding terrorism the majority of the money came from robbing banks in the Rep. of Ireland.

[Don Corleone]

heh, oh well. I wonder if my St. Patrick's day sig is what inspired the OP (given he mentioned the Tiochfaidh ar la thing)?

Well, to be honest, given views you've expressed in the past, it does come off as pretty snarky. But that's not really what my post was about. I don't imagine you're out there skulking in an alley-way someplace in Glasgow, ready to glass the next Celtic fan that crosses your path stumbling out of a bar.

But these people DO exist... In the USA, in Scotland, in Canada, in Australia....and it's not limited to anti-Irish bias, it's an anti-Catholic sentiment. I'm wondering aloud to it's causes and whether it'll ever subside. I suspect probably not, as the progenitor of it, English nationalism, has already made it's peace and moved on. The rest of the English speaking world though seems mired in it.

[johnhughthom]

Well, to be honest, given views you've expressed in the past, it does come off as pretty snarky. But that's not really what my post was about. I don't imagine you're out there skulking in an alley-way someplace in Glasgow, ready to glass the next Celtic fan that crosses your path stumbling out of a bar.

But these people DO exist... In the USA, in Scotland, in Canada, in Australia....and it's not limited to anti-Irish bias, it's an anti-Catholic sentiment. I'm wondering aloud to it's causes and whether it'll ever subside. I suspect probably not, as the progenitor of it, English nationalism, has already made it's peace and moved on. The rest of the English speaking world though seems mired in it.

If that was the intent of the op I apologise for my dismissive reply, it came across as the typical Irish American view with no real idea of the situation in Northern Ireland bemoaning the fate of the poor Catholics in Northern Ireland. Though you have to admit the use of the words Tiocfaidh ár lá and Orange made that an easy assumption to make. And I'm not saying it has been a bed of roses for the Irish Catholics over the last 800 years either, unfortunately it does look to the Protestant community at times that the forgive and forget part of peace is very one sided.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I don't imagine you're out there skulking in an alley-way someplace in Glasgow, ready to glass the next Celtic fan that crosses your path stumbling out of a bar.

You don't know everything about me.

Anyway, if you read any of my post at least take on board that point that even in Scotland, sectarian trouble has pretty specific roots in the myre of ethnic/social/political/religious issues in Northern Ireland.

In any case, I still have more respect for Catholicism, than say, atheism. It is just based on brainwashing and ignorance. I mean, I knew a kid at school that was an atheist, but then one day he picked up a book, and next thing you know he's telling everyone about Jesus.

[Shibumi]

You don't know everything about me.

Anyway, if you read any of my post at least take on board that point that even in Scotland, sectarian trouble has pretty specific roots in the myre of ethnic/social/political/religious issues in Northern Ireland.

In any case, I still have more respect for Catholicism, than say, atheism. It is just based on brainwashing and ignorance. I mean, I knew a kid at school that was an atheist, but then one day he picked up a book, and next thing you know he's telling everyone about Jesus.

I do not see atheism as brainwashing, on the contrary. If you let someone grow up without religion, odds are he will be atheist.

A quick look at religion at large strengthens my point, why else would so many italians be catholic, so many indians hindu, so many arabs islamic? You think they all individually "saw the light"? Hardly, I would say. So some form of brainwashing must take place. No?

Atheism on the other hand is wide spread across any national border.

You are a clever guy, I am sure you see the difference.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I do not see atheism as brainwashing, on the contrary. If you let someone grow up without religion, odds are he will be atheist.

A quick look at religion at large strengthens my point, why else would so many italians be catholic, so many indians hindu, so many arabs islamic? You think they all individually "saw the light"? Hardly, I would say. So some form of brainwashing must take place. No?

Atheism on the other hand is wide spread across any national border.

You are a clever guy, I am sure you see the difference.

Religions are varient belief systems, and in that sense Atheism is no different than Islam and Christianity. Richard Dawkins' arguments and patterns of thought are recognisable to anyone who has faced fundamentalist Christianity, the sole difference is the belief itself - the thought patterns verge on being identicle. Those who think like this and raise their children like this indocrinate like any fundamentalist, and the result is that a fairly large portion of people "raised atheist" latch onto a religion as soon as they leave home. Personally, I think this is why simple, evangelical Christian sects do so well in universities.

To address Don's original point:

Underlying your post seem to be a lot misconceptions: that there is a monolithic Protestant/Roman Catholic divide, that the Archbishop of Canterbury is in some was equivilent to the Pope, and that England deliberately exported a form of Catholic-hating Christianity. None of that is true. There are a multiplicity of "protestant" denominations, some of whom are Catholic, some reformed; the Archbishop is merely the Archbishop of Canterbury and Primate of All England; abd we kicked the nutters out because we didn't want them stirring up sectarian hatreds.

[Shibumi]

Religions are varient belief systems, and in that sense Atheism is no different than Islam and Christianity. Richard Dawkins' arguments and patterns of thought are recognisable to anyone who has faced fundamentalist Christianity, the sole difference is the belief itself - the thought patterns verge on being identicle. Those who think like this and raise their children like this indocrinate like any fundamentalist, and the result is that a fairly large portion of people "raised atheist" latch onto a religion as soon as they leave home. Personally, I think this is why simple, evangelical Christian sects do so well in universities.

Source? I do find that hard to believe. Very hard to believe even.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Source? I do find that hard to believe. Very hard to believe even.

My life? At least 30% of my 100 or so school friends went Christian either after starting college, or starting university. That's a pretty poor retention rate in my book.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I do not see atheism as brainwashing, on the contrary. If you let someone grow up without religion, odds are he will be atheist.

A quick look at religion at large strengthens my point, why else would so many italians be catholic, so many indians hindu, so many arabs islamic?

Or so many Swedes atheist?

I do not see atheism as brainwashing, on the contrary. If you let someone grow up without religion, odds are he will be atheist.

A quick look at religion at large strengthens my point, why else would so many italians be catholic, so many indians hindu, so many arabs islamic? You think they all individually "saw the light"? Hardly, I would say. So some form of brainwashing must take place. No?

Atheism on the other hand is wide spread across any national border.

You are a clever guy, I am sure you see the difference.

Well, I'm going to go along with what Richard Dawkins said on the matter, and say the roots of religion are twofold. First of all, he argues that through natural selection a belief in a higher power is perhaps something that has become innate to mankind. I would agree that people do by nature seem inclined to believe in a higher power, though obviously I would disagree with Dawkins on how this came about.

And secondly, he points out the more structural side of things, ie how religion grew as a political force, how it became tied with society etc. And that is what is responsible for the big diversity of religious practices in the world today that seem to be defined along national or geographic borders. In this sense differing religious practices are not much different from differing cultural practices - that certain population groups follow their own customs does not mean they have been brainwashed.

So, you could say... why then Rhyfelwyr do you think that your particularly crazy version of Protestantism is the right one (my sig is a bit of a joke, btw)? Well, the answer is that I accept the first point above - that belief in God is something that is self-evident and innate to humanity. But I think the second point - the institutional aspects of religion - is all corrupt and idolatrous, and in denying all the ritualistic elements of religion my own beliefs are obviously unique from all the other ones. A Catholic has more in common with a Hindu or a Muslim than he does with me, despite me being a Christian.

[drone]

I don't imagine you're out there skulking in an alley-way someplace in Glasgow, ready to glass the next Celtic fan that crosses your path stumbling out of a bar..

The No True Scotsman fallacy, Protestant corollary?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Hardline protestants really are some of the most weird religious groups on the planet. Remarkably similar to the Sunni extremists from Arabia, though.