How to use cavalry?

[moonburn]

axes perfurate armour but it´s a complete drag when it gets stuck in armour or even some skinny dudes ribs

have you ever tryed removing an axe while there´s alot of blood pouring out of the dudes wound into your face and it´s stuck beteween 2 vertebraes ? the time it takes you you can die 20 times better to leave it and grab something else in that sence the sword makes more sence goes in slices and cuts and never gets stuck unleass you´re fighting a kung fu master who can grab it with both palm of his hands and by some wierd reason the short priest can outstrenght you :\

[athanaric]

Considering that Armour Piercing doesn't mean armour piercing but rather 'consider half of the enemy's armour', I don't know if it much matters!

IMO the Armour piercing trait should be broken down to a scale, let's say measured in steps of 25%. For example, a sling bullet/bodkin arrow/falcata could be AP1 (ignores 25% or such), a mace could be AP2 (50%), and so on. Of course, this is purely academic. But still more accurate than the somewhat simplistic parameters of TW games.

axes perfurate armour but it´s a complete drag when it gets stuck in armour or even some skinny dudes ribs

have you ever tryed removing an axe while there´s alot of blood pouring out of the dudes wound into your face and it´s stuck beteween 2 vertebraes ?

That sounds as if you had already tried it. Now I'm a little bit worried. Is there a confession you'd like to make? Like, have their bodies already been found?

[vartan]

That sounds as if you had already tried it. Now I'm a little bit worried. Is there a confession you'd like to make? Like, have their bodies already been found?

Looks like the five year hunt is over. Ironic as it is, we have found our suspect on a war forum. How beautiful!

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Relax - he hasn't tried it - or he'd know that running someone through with a sword can often result in a stuck sword unable to be pulled out one-handed. You have to put your foot on the corpse for leverage and pull at the hilt with both hands and all your strength (twisting the blade around a bit helps if you can manage it, as it makes the wound wider and round-shaped instead of a narrow slit - although sometimes the rotating action is not possible if the corpse is wearing body armour). This is naturally a time-consuming process in the middle of a fight and effectively leaves you weaponless for several seconds. Sometimes you just have to leave your own sword stuck in the corpse, and quickly snatch up another one from a fallen comrade.

;)

[vartan]

And how do you know this, Titus?

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

And how do you know this, Titus?

From reading many books (both fact and fiction) with descriptions similiar to the above.

[antisocialmunky]

He found your cave.

[fomalhaut]

listen guys all i am saying is that Akontistai should not be able to stab Sacred Band Cavalry to death.

[jirisys]

listen guys all i am saying is that Akontistai should not be able to stab Sacred Band Cavalry to death.

Their horses, however, are prone to get knifed on their unarmoured areas.

~Jirisys ()

[Qvintvs]

I still can't figure out if a sword is better to use than a spear during melee. Nor can i tell overhand spears from...other kind.

[vollorix]

Now thats a picture i really would like to see: a 120 men group of unarmoured men, protected only by their tiny shield, if at all, untrained, not disciplined, in a loose formation, beeing charged by a group of 50 riders, and they are somehow able to stay on their feet ( lets put aside the initial charge, though, the horses would still be able to charge even if the men are running away - the speed difference is too big! ), willing to try to stab armoured riders, or their horses, staying among warhorses, which are a weapon for themself, instead of trying to save their life? I simply do not believe that, no way!
On the streets, perhaps, ambushing a small or tired unit of riders, isolated, or in a forest, but i find this simply unrealistic, sorry...

[fomalhaut]

no not only stand and fight, but do some much damange as to cause me to pull out completely! I would run away from a charge of Hippokontistai let alone Hetairoi!
and yes too bad engine limitations means that horse death=rider death.

[vollorix]

@fomalhaut: there is a very easy way to break skirmishers: double charge from 2 directions, especially from the front and the rear - insta rout ( once skirmishers are in melee, and cannot use their "skirmish" mod, one of the charges, normaly the second one, delivers the actual shock effect - boom! ;) ). Charge first with some melee resistent cavalry ( decent armour, shield etc ), bodyguards are perfect, while the second charge needs to be just decent, 24+ ( the higher the better, of course ). Normaly your heavy cavalry is allready a bit tired, so that the lethality, and the absence of the initial charge ( due to the "skirmishing", or running away from it ) do not have the impact they would if a unit is fresh and the charge has been fully completed.

Another thing i´ve just found in "Aradans EDU guide" that bothers me:
Minimum delay between weapon attacks, measured in 1/10 of seconds. It is the minimum time allowed between the beginning of an attacking animation and the beginning of the next one. It only applies to foot melee skeletons.
Now, according to this quote, the delay of cavalry spears units wouldn´t work at all, i assume?

[athanaric]

Now thats a picture i really would like to see: a 120 men group of unarmoured men, protected only by their tiny shield, if at all, untrained, not disciplined, in a loose formation, beeing charged by a group of 50 riders, and they are somehow able to stay on their feet ( lets put aside the initial charge, though, the horses would still be able to charge even if the men are running away - the speed difference is too big! ), willing to try to stab armoured riders, or their horses, staying among warhorses, which are a weapon for themself, instead of trying to save their life? I simply do not believe that, no way!
On the streets, perhaps, ambushing a small or tired unit of riders, isolated, or in a forest, but i find this simply unrealistic, sorry...

Loose formation is broken, especially in combination with skirmish mode. It's a common problem when you're fighting against the Lusotannan. A countermeasure is to spam archers or morale breakers.

[Sdragon]

Problem is you can't deal a real charge on skirmishers when they are running away. Once contact is made your horse men just ride around in circles inside the enemy formation. I find that right after contact, pressing stop and ordering an attack with swords works best.

[antisocialmunky]

Charge is actually kinda buggy in RTW and M2TW. Only in ETW - S2TW does it act physically correct. One of the things you can do, is run a unit of high morale skirmishes infront of a cavalry unit BEFORE the unit lowers its lances. This will basically stop a charge and do very little damage to the skirmishers. In fact, you only need to touch a very small part of the cav unit to make it fail a charge.

[vartan]

Charge is actually kinda buggy in RTW and M2TW. Only in ETW - S2TW does it act physically correct. One of the things you can do, is run a unit of high morale skirmishes infront of a cavalry unit BEFORE the unit lowers its lances. This will basically stop a charge and do very little damage to the skirmishers. In fact, you only need to touch a very small part of the cav unit to make it fail a charge.

Hey now, you just rigged half of the MP battles right there!

[fomalhaut]

yeah i just finally conquered the Lusotan's and my lord are they stupid to fight. Hammer and Anvil does NOT work against them since half their units double as hyper effective skirmishers. Many of the Sacred Band now fertilize the earth in Iberia :(

[antisocialmunky]

It takes a ton of micro to combat cavalry micro which means your heavy infantry must be able to actually beat the enemy heavy infantry. There's also the problem that everyone maxes out on elite missiles that just shred every single 'fast' skirmisher type(the only type that can actually intercept cavalry) and morale is a huge problem. Which basically means that you'll probably have no cavalry, need to have super elite missile units (or slinger spam), and chevroned skirmishers.

And the skirms will eventually break unless you have enough archers/slingers to whittle down the cavalry in between each intercepted charge....

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

and yes too bad engine limitations means that horse death=rider death.

Horse death did equal rider death historically because once the rider is unhorsed, he will be the primary target of every enemy around him. A man on foot is a lot easier to surround and kill than a man on horseback. It's human nature to go for the easiest target.

[athanaric]

yeah i just finally conquered the Lusotan's and my lord are they stupid to fight. Hammer and Anvil does NOT work against them since half their units double as hyper effective skirmishers. Many of the Sacred Band now fertilize the earth in Iberia :(

I found that Gallic swordsmen (Bataroas, but also Botroas if the former aren't available) work quite well against them - because of their high melee lethality, good stamina, and large unit size. Also, their armour is so low that the typical Iberian AP trait is useless against them. You can hire them as mercenaries in Northern Iberia or Gaul. Also, pair them up with morale breakers. Not elephants of course, since they're very vulnerable to javelins, but naked fanatics of any sort. Carthage can even recruit Gaesatae (in Gaul) for that purpose.

Also, if you're SPQR or Gauls, and hence coming from the Northeast, you can try to gain a foothold in Lacetania and start recruiting Milites Ilergetum for fighting the Lusotannan. They're more reliable than the Gaulish dudes, but come in smaller numbers.

[fomalhaut]

Yep Milites Illegertum helped out alot in Iberia. I especially liked how Carthage got a skin for them, it made them feel much more a part of my army. There was some tension between them and my Celtiberian Dunaminancae but when 4000 Lusotanians are surrounding you those hatreds tend to go right away

[Shade]

After playing no Total War but EB for a long time, I tried some Medieval 2. It was amazing how powerful cavalry charges were, especially from behind. I recall that at one point I had a full-cavalry army just marauding around the enemy countryside, causing chaos and destruction. It was just a family member plus a lot of heavy knights, so sieges were only winnable by waiting for the enemy to either starve or sally. Of course, I nearly panicked when I was cornered by an entire army of spearmen.

As it turns out, the sheer charging power of cavalry is more than enough to pummel through any spearman army.