Question for Strike and the other buff getting buff buffs

[Vuk]

Does anyone know some good exercises to strengthen the neck that does not require any expensive equipment?
A 340 lb guy in my Wing Tsun class last semester (when I was in Seattle) took me to the ground with a headlock and I tried to resist...which resulted in my head feeling like he had pulled it half off. Since then I have been doing resistance exercises with my hands (pushing against the head with my hands while I use my neck muscles to keep it still), but they do not seem to be getting me far. I just want to strengthen those muscles so that if someone ever does get me by the head like that again I won't have my head instantly pulled off. :P

[Centurion1]

shrugs and neck curls i had to do alot of them for boxing

[Vuk]

shrugs and neck curls i had to do alot of them for boxing

Thanks Centurion, but what is a neck curl?

[drone]

[Strike For The South]

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/the_yoke.htm

Deadlift and shrug

or just deadlift

Simply Isolating the neck would be pointless considering you (to my knowelege) are doing no other type of resistance training

But if you insist on cherry picking excersies for small muslce groups....Neck bridges

[Centurion1]

well yeah you shoud always work out your entire body dont be the neck equivalent of a bench presser at the gym.

im just going to assume you already work out other parts of your body.

[Vuk]

Thanks guys. I will read that after classes today Strike. No, I do not do any other type of resistance training. I have a fairly thick neck, but not thick enough. I do enough real work that I am already fairly muscular, so I have seen no reason to lift (and after a hard day's work, I really do not have the energy).
I want to work on the neck specifically because I already have fairly strong (and large) biceps, triceps, legs, pects, etc, and they are strong enough to do what I need them to. My neck failed to do what I needed it to do, so I am looking to strengthen it. :P

[Vuk]

Hmmm...the guy you posted a video of also shows how to do the same exercises I had thought up. (I also did resistance back and front, and twisted with the hands)

[Strike For The South]

Thanks guys. I will read that after classes today Strike. No, I do not do any other type of resistance training. I have a fairly thick neck, but not thick enough. I do enough real work that I am already fairly muscular, so I have seen no reason to lift (and after a hard day's work, I really do not have the energy).
I want to work on the neck specifically because I already have fairly strong (and large) biceps, triceps, legs, pects, etc, and they are strong enough to do what I need them to. My neck failed to do what I needed it to do, so I am looking to strengthen it. :P

So resistance training isn't real work?

If you want to be complacent more power to you but I'm going to tell you right now slamming your hand up against your head will get you know where

Even if you add a 5lb plate.

[Vuk]

So resistance training isn't real work?

If you want to be complacent more power to you but I'm going to tell you right now slamming your hand up against your head will get you know where

Even if you add a 5lb plate.

lol, if I was a physicist yes, I would consider it work, but when I said work, I meant it in the more general sense. No offense, but I doubt 99% of body builders could do the work I have done in my life. There is quite a difference between isolating and training individual muscle groups during short periods of the day, and doing back-breaking, whole body work ALL day long, every darned day. When I was a kid I worked removing rocks from my neighbors field over summer periods for a few years. He some times hired kids from the high school football team for the same job, and they just couldn't do it. Big, buffed guys who play football and lift weights all day, couldn't do a single, honest day's work in the field. :P Their bodies were built for bench-presses and curls, and not for real work. Sorry Strike, but I don't consider weight training to be anything like real work.
Also, what do you mean by 'be complacent'? Do you think that those exercises with the hands are not good? I followed your link, and read what he said about building the 'yoke'. Is it my misunderstanding, or was he talking about shoulder and back muscles more than chest muscles? It is the neck in particular that I want to strengthen. (strengthen, not build. I really do not care about the size or definition of the muscle)

[Strike For The South]

But be my guest and continue pushing your face against your palm

I was wrong, you are right

[Vuk]

But be my guest and continue pushing your face against your palm

I was wrong, you are right

I never said that you were wrong, I asked why you thought it was wrong.

[Centurion1]

dont ask for weight lifting help if your going to rag on it and talk about how strong and superior you are.

[Vuk]

dont ask for weight lifting help if your going to rag on it and talk about how strong and superior you are.

lol, that is not what I was doing. I asked Strike what he meant by 'complacent'. I would not be asking for help if I did not want it. Also, I never said that I was stronger than anyone. I simply pointed out (in response to Strike's question) that raw strength is not always what you need for real work.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Hey Strike and Cent, whats the name of that lame exercise you guys do? I want to know what its like to exercise without doing work.

[Centurion1]

well when i feel particularly ambitious i try to keep up my football physique by using the wii instead of the xbox. but you know nothing really beats the walk down the stairs to the dinner table.

[a completely inoffensive name]

well when i feel particularly ambitious i try to keep up my football physique by using the wii instead of the xbox. but you know nothing really beats the walk down the stairs to the dinner table.

I know what you mean. Sometimes, I exert myself more than I should by going down and up the stairs again for a second piece of cake to eat in my room, while I play Fallout: New Vegas.

[Vuk]

As I said earlier, I define work as something that you have to do, and that accomplishes an external purpose. Lifting weights is something that you choose to do so you will look hotter, and it you only accomplish boosting your own body and self-esteem.
I was not bashing working-out, just explaining to Strike why I did not call it real work (for the same reason I would not call training in martial arts real work, though it requires great effort and a large time commitment).
And I never said that lifting will not get you more muscle than work, I simply explained to Strike that having the muscle is not enough if you do not know how to use it for a particular type of work. Real work trains you to use your muscles together, and gives them endurance.
Pardon me if I insulted something sacred by saying that, I did not realize how sensitize everyone was on the matter. Let me make it clear, yes, I realize that you will get a lot of muscle by lifting correctly, and that is why I asked the question. I only compared it to work to answer Strikes question. Sheesh.

[Strike For The South]

When a 340 pound man puts you in a headlock not all of the neck curls and head presses in the world will save you. You said your head was about to pop off, you were no where near getting out of that headlock. You can either

Get stronger everywhere
Get Better at Wing Tsu

As I said earlier, I define work as something that you have to do, and that accomplishes an external purpose. Lifting weights is something that you choose to do so you will look hotter, and it you only accomplish boosting your own body and self-esteem.
I was not bashing working-out, just explaining to Strike why I did not call it real work (for the same reason I would not call training in martial arts real work, though it requires great effort and a large time commitment).

Your body does not know the difference between a rock and a dumbell, if weights don't work why does everyone use them. How come NFL teams have weight rooms instead of rural Wisconsin farms? To your body weights is work, that's why you get stronger LOGIC. I have heard the non functional muscle debate since people started realizing I lifted. I tune these people out becuase they are usually fat gelatinous slobs or rail thin unhealthy people surviving on processed foods. My muscle is functional in everyday life

My time in the gym is directly tied with what I eat and how I sleep. I don't do this b/c of some girl or to boost my ego. I do it because I love the high I get after I pull heavy, the callouses on my hands and sweat on my brow when I finsih You mistake me for a weekend warrior and that is your own folly

And I never said that lifting will not get you more muscle than work, I simply explained to Strike that having the muscle is not enough if you do not know how to use it for a particular type of work. Real work trains you to use your muscles together, and gives them endurance.

So what are compound movements then? Have you ever seen someone squat or deadlift? Which muscle are they isolating there?

Pardon me if I insulted something sacred by saying that, I did not realize how sensitize everyone was on the matter. Let me make it clear, yes, I realize that you will get a lot of muscle by lifting correctly, and that is why I asked the question. I only compared it to work to answer Strikes question. Sheesh.

Meh, you're wrong but this time you're wrong with a whole bunch of other people. I have given advice to members on this forum that has tangiable results I know what I do is right. So you can either listen to me or continue going no where fast

But don't start a thread with my name in it only to piss on me when I tell you what will work simply due to your pre conceived notions of what I or my sport is

[Centurion1]

or how about a hang clean or a push press. Your telling me picking up rocks creates more muscle than weightlifting. the only thing that does is create a higherrisk of stupid injuries in your back.

[Vuk]

When a 340 pound man puts you in a headlock not all of the neck curls and head presses in the world will save you. You said your head was about to pop off, you were no where near getting out of that headlock. You can either

Get stronger everywhere
Get Better at Wing Tsu



Your body does not know the difference between a rock and a dumbell, if weights don't work why does everyone use them. How come NFL teams have weight rooms instead of rural Wisconsin farms? To your body weights is work, that's why you get stronger LOGIC. I have heard the non functional muscle debate since people started realizing I lifted. I tune these people out becuase they are usually fat gelatinous slobs or rail thin unhealthy people surviving on processed foods. My muscle is functional in everyday life

My time in the gym is directly tied with what I eat and how I sleep. I don't do this b/c of some girl or to boost my ego. I do it because I love the high I get after I pull heavy, the callouses on my hands and sweat on my brow when I finsih You mistake me for a weekend warrior and that is your own folly

So what are compound movements then? Have you ever seen someone squat or deadlift? Which muscle are they isolating there?


Meh, you're wrong but this time you're wrong with a whole bunch of other people. I have given advice to members on this forum that has tangiable results I know what I do is right. So you can either listen to me or continue going no where fast

But don't start a thread with my name in it only to piss on me when I tell you what will work simply due to your pre conceived notions of what I or my sport is

You either don't or won't understand what I was saying Strike, but it was not my intent to insult power training. I know it builds strong muscles, which is why I asked for your help. Also, how did I not take your advice? I asked you a question (which you did not answer) as to what you meant. I was not trying to be argumentative, but simply to understand what you meant.

[Vuk]

or how about a hang clean or a push press. Your telling me picking up rocks creates more muscle than weightlifting. the only thing that does is create a higherrisk of stupid injuries in your back.

No, I did ont say that it creates more muscle, and I do not know why you thought that. I said that guys who lifted all day (in a cool gym) and played football did not have the endurance or coordination to work all day in the sun. They had much more than enough muscle (the rocks were not that large), but it takes more than muscle to work. That was my point...that they were two different things. You will gain endurance, muscle, and coordination lifting and working, but you gain more endurance and coordination working, and more muscle lifting. My point was that I think a mix of the two is better than just one, and having done lots of work, I am looking to augment it by strength training. I am sorry if my 4 explanations were not enough to get my meaning across, but I hope this does.

[Strike For The South]

To compare me to some podunk, inbred, 3rd class, Wisconson high school football team is insulting

Take it back

And I have answered you, multiple times

[Vuk]

To compare me to some podunk, inbred, 3rd class, Wisconson high school football team is insulting

Take it back

And I have answered you, multiple times

I didn't compare you to anything or anyone. We were talking about power lifting and gave an example of power lifters I know. You don't need to be so defensive or so insulting.
If you have answered my question, I certainly have not been able to find your answer. What exactly do you find wrong with those exercises, and what would you suggest I do instead?

[Strike For The South]

I didn't compare you to anything or anyone. We were talking about power lifting and gave an example of power lifters I know. You don't need to be so defensive or so insulting.
If you have answered my question, I certainly have not been able to find your answer. What exactly do you find wrong with those exercises, and what would you suggest I do instead?

You gave an example of some mouth breathing crackers, who lift with there HS football team, as for responses

Deadlift and shrug

or just deadlift

Simply Isolating the neck would be pointless considering you (to my knowelege) are doing no other type of resistance training

But if you insist on cherry picking excersies for small muslce groups....Neck bridges

When a 340 pound man puts you in a headlock not all of the neck curls and head presses in the world will save you. You said your head was about to pop off, you were no where near getting out of that headlock. You can either

Get stronger everywhere
Get Better at Wing Tsu

[LeftEyeNine]

You guys are arguing thanks to a fire started by some professional internet troll.

Considering this debate only, I don't see anything Vuk particularly trying to refuse in an unpleasant way or "pissing on another" as SFTS called it, or SFTS doing something alike.

I can't believe how you buy into those silent provocations.

Vuk, SFTS, please keep it civilized for you two were both good-tempered all along. Just don't feed the trolls; I expect you two to be more experienced than that.

[Secura]

Guys, please keep it civil and be mindful of the rules; regardless of how much a member frustrates you, do not resort to personal attacks or mocking to convey your emotions.

Personally, I think there's alot of sound advice from both Centurion and Strike here, it's totally up to Vuk whether he chooses to follow suit or not.

[Vuk]

So your advice is then that training the neck by itself is not good enough, and that I should train everything?
The reason I am slow to do this Strike, is because I suffer from Tendinosis and have injuries from when I tore tendons in my arms, and one leg. Do you think I could do variations of them that did not stress the lower arms out especially? (my legs are pretty strong. It is the arms (the right ones especially) that give me problems)
I have a pretty unique situation Strike, because I can use my legs most times for strenuous activity, but making too many rapid movements (such as running) can sometimes make them sore. It really is not that big of a deal though. The big problem is my upper-body which (aside from therapy exercises), I have not done a lot with in years. The problem with my arms is two-fold. First of all, I cannot do exceptionally heavy lifting with them for long durations without causing intense pain. Secondly, fast or repeated movements usually cause a lot of pain.
It limits everything I do, including practicing martial arts. I am still able to practice martial arts; I just have to always keep up the therapy exercises (and Taiji), practice for short amounts of time, and not do it too often. I don't see how I could regularly work out with them.
My core on the other hand is pretty strong, and I regularly do back exercises (not with weights) and sit-ups/crunches as part of my martial arts training (as well as leg workouts most times), but I have to be careful not to over stress the arms. That is why I was hoping it would be possible to find a neck-strengthening exercise that did not involve a lot of stress on the arms.

[Strike For The South]

Then I would advise you to speak to a professional before starting any excersise regimine. I cant in good concinsce give you advice from 0000s of miles away with a condition like that

[Vuk]

Then I would advise you to speak to a professional before starting any excersise regimine. I cant in good concinsce give you advice from 0000s of miles away with a condition like that

Strike, I am quite aware that my condition has limitations (and what those are), and I am also aware that I could hurt myself working out. I am not going to hold someone responsible for advice they give me, when it is my choice to follow it or not and I know my own limitations better than they ever could. I am just asking you if you know of any ways of strengthening the neck that do not involve excessive stress on the arms.
It is up to me to choose whether or not to do those exercises, and if I hurt myself it is my own fault. (ei, I am not gonna try to sue you ) I just would like your advice as someone who knows about bodybuilding.
(as far as professionals, they advised me I should give up gaming, typing (fat chance considering I am a historian in training), any type of physical work with my right arm, and that I should give up martial arts all together, as any future tears could be permenant. I am choosing not to live my life that way. My therapist seemed very cautious as to what she told me, but I know my own body better than she does. With proper therapy (stretches, exercises with my bands, massaging, and icing), regular Taiji, and good judgement I have been able to use my right arm for competitive martial arts, ameture wrestling, work, typing, etc. ei, I actually have a life . I don't put much faith in professionals with this, because they told me that even with therapy I would probably never be able to do any of those things.)