Most dominant infantry in Europe

[Ksifos]

Rahl - Well that would explain the outcome of the battle but... aren't bonuses, maluses and terrain calculated in the battle preview? Just curious because if true the AI odds should have been lower.

[vollorix]

AFAIK, it´s the armour value ( which get´s approx. doubled in the calculation, iirc ) that matters most in autoresolve. And the armour of PO and Triarii goes beyond any scale compared to celtic one ( even Solduros can´t match them ).

[Ksifos]

Vollorix - About Boii, you were right their stats are 12/21.It's just that I can recruit them with one chevron of experience (hence the +1) and now I am building a blacksmith (+1 more).So overall they will start with 14/23.Not bad at all!

Just got access to Cordinau Orca (Elite Scordisci Infantry), small unit per size but their stats are superb (15Att / 30 Def).They are easily compared to top roman units.Similar unit that comes to mind, the british Rycalawre has less Att and is more defensive orientated.

[fomalhaut]

but honestly, they are ugly as all sin. they look like ancient american football players in silly trousers

[Ksifos]

but honestly, they are ugly as all sin. they look like ancient american football players in silly trousers

True.But when they cut through enemies, they look so beautiful :-P

[war is hell]

Cordinau Orca only have a lethality of .12 though, I found them kind of underwhelming. Maybe I used them wrong though.

As far as most dominant infantry well that's a good question. I just wrapped up a Casse campaign so I'm gonna have to go with Milnaht


Milnaht shred through anything that's not elite. Theyre not terribly expensive, they hold up against anything, very hardy so they'll eventually out last whatever they're fighting, etc. Just an all round good unit.

[vollorix]

Plus: Cardinau Orca got not even "hardy", aka good stamina attribute. And since the lethality drops with loss of stamina ( as does the morale ), they are best to hold the line, are quite missile proof ( shield and armour at best ), or block some narrow passage. In vanilla they´d be superb due to lethality = 1 and very short battles, but in EB, where fighting takes a while... well. Also, you can utilize them in autoresolving battles - playing some "underarmoured" faction, just put a couple of these units directly after you general bodyguards ;)

[Rahl]

Rahl - Well that would explain the outcome of the battle but... aren't bonuses, maluses and terrain calculated in the battle preview? Just curious because if true the AI odds should have been lower.

Vollorix already explained the most important part. The autocalc is crap, the AI generals often have way more stars what gives them better battle odds but we all know they can't use them properly. I'm not sure if the terrain is included in the battle odds, height maybe, but just think about battles at river crossings... I'm playing a Sweboz in Bastarnolandam campaing atm and have abushed many armoured HA armies of the Sauros, mostly with battle odds of 1:2 or 3 and won easily even without any armoured units and I'm not experienced with ambushing and hate the lack of sight in the woods. The AI could have won some of them too I believe.

Just got access to Cordinau Orca (Elite Scordisci Infantry), small unit per size but their stats are superb (15Att / 30 Def).They are easily compared to top roman units.Similar unit that comes to mind, the british Rycalawre has less Att and is more defensive orientated.

The Cordinau Orca have low lethality (1.2 IIRC) they are worse then other celtic elites even with their 2 extra armour, I changed them in my game because they're less cost-effective then most other elites and especially then other regionals.

[Ludens]

I'm not sure if the terrain is included in the battle odds, height maybe, but just think about battles at river crossings...

According to the developers the auto-calc algorithm does take terrain into account. Or are you talking about the graphic display of battle odds on the pre-battle screen and next to the map-view during battles?

[Ksifos]

I started looking at units' details because you all speak of lethality for example.I tried searching (tbh not thoroughly) for some info about those hidden stats.So that I can understand how important is attack, lethality, morale, training etc

Let me give you one example.All spearmen/pikemen I checked have a lethality of 1, which means 1 hit=1kill.But ingame I don't get that impression.On the contrary I think both type of units are SLOW killers.Again, swordsmen seem to kill much faster.And all have considerably LOWER lethality.So I would really love to understand the whole concept a bit better, cause I dont believe lethality itself is the most important factor.

To anyone with expertise in this kind of info, I would appreciate some links or explanation on those attributes.

[vollorix]

@Ksifos: you should read this one: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=111344
It will help you understand almost everything about EDU and beyond.

[Rahl]

According to the developers the auto-calc algorithm does take terrain into account. Or are you talking about the graphic display of battle odds on the pre-battle screen and next to the map-view during battles?

About that one on the pre-battle screen. Even the one during the battles differs from that one. I think the odds on the pre-battle screen count the troops and the general and not much more. Seeing the difference between the campaign map-terrain and the battle map it wouldn't be able to calculate that correctly.

[Ksifos]

Thanks Vollorix for the source.

Do you know what the const1 parameter in the "chance to kill" formulae represents?

[TheLastDays]

About that one on the pre-battle screen. Even the one during the battles differs from that one. I think the odds on the pre-battle screen count the troops and the general and not much more. Seeing the difference between the campaign map-terrain and the battle map it wouldn't be able to calculate that correctly.

Actually the pre-battle odds are at least supposed to evaluate tropp strength, troop quality and experience, general's ability and so they are supposed to really give an account of the odds in the battle. The "troopmeter" in the battle system only counts numbers as far as I know