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Thread: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

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    Default Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    In the 1990s, the US got involved in Bosnia and Kosovo and fought against the Serbs who used to rule the area beforehand. However, I can't think of any resources in the area of any geopolitical advantages there are in that region. So it would seem that reasons for involving ourselves in those countries was humanitarian. Yet, at the same time, there were plenty of other nasty ethnic conflicts going on. What made Bosnia and Kosovo different that they would warrant attention? Could it have been timing? That we would have some collective guilt about not interfering in Rwanda that we would try to make up for it in Bosnia? Or did the media just care more about white people than black or brown people? Proximity to NATO allies as we wouldn't want destabilization in their area? Or just plain luck on behalf of the Bosniaks, Croats, and Kosovars?

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    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Backroom...

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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Backroom...
    How far does it have to be before it belongs in the realm of the monastery?

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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Yugoslavia...genocides....care more for White than Black people...


    ...I think I'll ethnically cleanse this thread to the Backroom.
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    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    That we would have some collective guilt about not interfering in Rwanda that we would try to make up for it in Bosnia
    It was a mixture of this and the pathetic failure of the United Nations to keep the so-called Safe Areas free from bigoted murderers.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    The bosnians had the foresight to be born white and European

    Granted why anyone would waste anything trying to fix the balkans is beyond me
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    ..I think I'll ethnically cleanse this thread to the Backroom.
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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    I always had an inkling that part of the Balkans intervention was the last gasp of the cold warriors. The Serbs are Orthodox just like the Russians, so close enough. "Everybody is killing everybody, but these guys are Russian proxies!" After that Kosovo was just habit, and unwillingness to admit to our mistakes from the first go around.
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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Because the European nations was to hestiant to do anything so we can to do the work for them as usual .

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofKingWarman8 View Post
    Because the European nations was to hestiant to do anything so we can to do the work for them as usual .
    exactly, becuase all Europeans are spineless women, unwilling to oppress or subjugate any peoples
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    exactly, becuase all Europeans are spineless women, unwilling to oppress or subjugate any peoples

    Extacly, just look at Libyra now. Sure, France may have "taken the first step" but it was us who really led the way.... as usual.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofKingWarman8 View Post
    Extacly, just look at Libyra now. Sure, France may have "taken the first step" but it was us who really led the way.... as usual.
    Pray tell what are we doing in Lybia right now
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Supposdliey we got agents on the ground there .

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofKingWarman8 View Post
    Supposdliey we got agents on the ground there .
    Ignorance is bliss
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Pray tell what are we doing in Lybia right now
    Protecting the EU's oil supply.
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Ignorance is bliss
    Saying I don't know what I'm talknig about?

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofKingWarman8 View Post
    Saying I don't know what I'm talknig about?
    I am
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Jaguara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Bosnia was a traditional peacekeeping operation. From what I heard from friends who served there, they did not engage as combat troops. Thus it is a very different kind of intervention.


    Regarding Kosovo...

    Frankly, I am a bit more cynical. I think it was just convenience. Clinton needed something to distract the attention from the Monica Lewinsky case. Also, he hadn't bombed anyone yet, and no American presidency is complete without a good bombing!

    Joking aside, certainly there were other reasons, but when the issue was raised, Clinton I do think my first point played into the mix...and may have been a big part of why he engaged so eagerly. Also, the Democrats tend to think that engaging in a little war will keep the Republicans off their backs, and keep them from looking "weak".
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I am
    And you think you do? Very Unlikely.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofKingWarman8 View Post
    And you think you do? Very Unlikely.
    I'm willing to take my chances esp with someone who thinks we have "agents on the ground"

    Too little is known about Libya's rebels and they remain too fragmented for the United States to get seriously involved in organizing or training them, let alone arming them, U.S. and European officials say.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...edName=topNews

    But hey you've got that promising writing carreer ahead of you, I'm sure there's nothing to worry about
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofKingWarman8 View Post
    Because the European nations was to hestiant to do anything so we can to do the work for them as usual .
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/13/wo...ca/13nato.html

    His remarks, echoed by Foreign Minister Alain Juppé of France, reflected what officials have described as a complex and at times convoluted coalition, with many participating countries refusing to carry out airstrikes against forces on the ground, even as their planes patrol the skies over Libya.

    Britain and France, for example, are now flying the bulk of the attack missions, with Norway, Denmark and Canada also striking Libyan targets on the ground. But other countries, including the Netherlands, Sweden, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, are taking less aggressive roles, enforcing the no-fly zone over Libya or conducting reconnaissance missions, in a nod to political considerations back home.

    ...

    The varying tactics reflect the different ways in which each country in the coalition views the mission, and how tough it has been to corral all the participants into focused attacks.
    In Washington, Obama administration officials sought to tamp down a growing sense of concern among some military analysts that the combination of the Americans’ back-seat role, NATO’s inexperience in waging a complicated air campaign against moving targets and botched communications with the ragtag rebel army had thrown the mission into disarray.

    QED

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  22. #22
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Backroom...”: I am not history!!!!!
    I am not THAT old…

    To answer (partially) the question: Media campaign and need to have a contra-balance to the systematic support for Israel…
    It was good to help Muslims. And they had the advantage to be white… Most of them.

    Some Serbs will tell you about Moniqua Lewinsky as well…

    It is Europe. Landscapes, population, habits, daily life, every thing is like in Europe/USA.

    That was my second war. But this one, I couldn’t keep it out of me. Bosnian hills look Savoie.

    Now, why the Serbs were chosen as the badies?
    First because the media were slow to react.
    When Slovenia became Independent, it was in few weeks, and nobody really understood what happened. The cold murder perpetrated by the Slovene Prime Minister in front of the world Camera then the quick withdrawing of the Federal Army took every body by surprise.
    When the Croats started the Barracks Wars, again nobody was there, and when Susak (Croat) shelled Borovo Selo (Serbs) in April 1991 same story. It became a story when the Yugoslav Army finally decided to intervene in Vukovar in November.
    The media were there and started to show the poor Croats hunted down by the Serbs.
    The fact that the Croatian Nationalists were referring to the ustasa (Nazi) regime was pushed under the carpet with ease and style.
    You can add the bombardment of Dubrovnik…

    Same story for Bosnia: Systematic rapes, poor defenceless Muslims against the mighty Serbs and the will to not allow truth to spoil a good story started the process, then the media were able to do a proper information job.
    No body seemed to notice than the Green Beret (The Eagle of Islam) were created one year before the start of the war…

    So, the war between Croats and Muslims, Muslim (Izetbegovic) against Muslim (Abdic), all what can add complexity to the understanding was avoided.

    As for Kosovo, well, the machine just carried on.

    Of course, it is more complex than this and the Serbian side was not exempt of mistakes and murders. I can probably write a book about it.
    In fact I did.
    Wasn’t published mind you…

    But Serbs were not good at PR.
    So they lost the war.
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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Rahwana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    well, the Serbians are just unlucky that time
    just like Khadaffi today
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I'm willing to take my chances esp with someone who thinks we have "agents on the ground"



    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...edName=topNews

    But hey you've got that promising writing carreer ahead of you, I'm sure there's nothing to worry about
    Old quote but hey, everyone loves you so I'm sure that won't cause any doubts about your posts here .

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofKingWarman8 View Post
    Old quote but hey, everyone loves you so I'm sure that won't cause any doubts about your posts here .

    An old quote, from an hour ago?

    What a clown
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  26. #26
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    But Serbs were not good at PR.
    So they lost the war.
    Well, everybody learned the lesson nowadays. In any conflict, the first thing to do is to hire the most expensive American PR agency, then the second most expensive, then the third and if you have some money left over, the fourth. Whatever pittance there is after that, you equip your troops.
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 04-15-2011 at 19:20.

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    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Yugoslavia was the 'chink in Stalin's armour', but after the Bloc collapsed, they were just a standing communist state that could cause potential problems and the Western nations wanted to take them down to destroy the strong communist presence in Central Europe. It was all just politics and a stupid public...
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    Yugoslavia was the 'chink in Stalin's armour', but after the Bloc collapsed, they were just a standing communist state that could cause potential problems and the Western nations wanted to take them down to destroy the strong communist presence in Central Europe. It was all just politics and a stupid public...
    you have a thread with questions for you to answer
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Senior Member Jaguara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I'm willing to take my chances esp with someone who thinks we have "agents on the ground"
    http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.com/2...n-libya-8.html

    This was from back in March. We only know about them because they were caught.

    To be honest, anyone who thinks there are not already special forces in the region from all the major involved players is delusional. They are there, they may not be active, they may only be observing, but they are there.

    Your own article states:
    CIA operatives on the ground are aggressively collecting information on the rebels, their structure, leadership and military capabilities, U.S. officials said.
    I think that pretty much translates to "agents on the ground".
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  30. #30
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Bosnia and Kosovo?

    I wasnt aware British SAS came under American jurisduction

    Nor does that make warman right, he's still talking out of his ass
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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