Osama Bin Laden is Dead

[Dâriûsh]

Keep it classy, Mohamed.

Gah. I see the fine people of Finsbury Park Mosque is out on a stroll.





I really wish stupid Abu Hamza's little stupid army of stupid Bin Ladenites would find another hobby. Or move to Mars.

[Fragony]

Hundreds my eye. There are about 30 in that group that turn up to these things. 25 if it's raining. The only people who take them seriously are people like you and the media who know they can get some racy copy out of them.

100 is what is reported. And if nobody takes it seriously than why are people so cautious?

[Crazed Rabbit]

A quote from an article featuring that picture:

However, another man who prayed at the Mosque said the group [with the signs] were a dangerous minority. He said: "They are crazy. They all benefit from UK education and UK benefits.

"They get everything for free and yet they still complain. They are not Islam, they are for Osama.

"You see the people walking past and ignoring them. Most Muslims have better things to do then this."

They'll always be idiots (see birthers in the US). Though I don't see the reason in giving them welfare.

CR

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Fragony, the amount of neologisms you create is proportional to the amount of paranoid nonsense you post here.



Wow, and yet it has several times.



Okay, let's say there are maybe, maybe 400 people protesting like this. In, for example, the Netherlands. Musllims constitute about 5% of the population (according the CBS/Statistics Netherlands). That's around 340.000 Muslims. 400 divided by 340.000 is about 0.0012 percent of the Dutch Muslim population.

Yep, there's a problem with Islam. Obviously. Statistics are just "Islamphile" propaganda!

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.....

[Lemur]

Since some news outlets and commentators are still pushing the narrative that we have torture, beautiful torture to thank for catching OBL, this interview with a military interrogator caught my eye:

A top United States interrogator in Afghanistan says that torture played no role in locating Osama bin Laden, and that claims to the contrary by former Bush administration officials recently is “propaganda [that] degrades our intelligence operations more than any other factor I can think of.”

Such talk also creates blowback — unintended consequences — that can be deadly, he added in an interview. “Simply the idea of our interrogators using torture or coercion recruits jihadists, facilitators, suppliers, supporters, and even suicide bombers, against us and our allies,” he said.

The man, who can’t be named for security reasons, has nearly two decades of experience as a military interrogator and Human Intelligence (HUMINT) specialist. He interrogated suspected high-value targets at Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, and Afghanistan, where he is currently stationed.

“Listen,” he said, “waterboarding and/or other coercive techniques did nothing to contribute to our attempts to track down UBL (Usama bin Laden). What did succeed was weeks, months and years of diligent, laborious, and dedicated work – all within the bounds of legal and ethical boundaries….No torture, no waterboarding, no coercion – nothing inhumane is considered a useful tool in our work.”

On the subject of blowback, he continued: "I cannot even count the amount of times that I personally have come face to face with detainees, who told me they were primarily motivated to do what they did, because of hearing that we committed torture. Even the rumor of torture is enough to convince an army of uneducated and illiterate, yet religiously motivated young boys to strap bombs to their chests and blow themselves up while killing whoever happens to be around – police, soldiers, civilians, women, or children. Torture committed by Americans in the past continues to kill Americans today." [...]

“If right-wing news outlets and partisan pundits or politicians are allowed to continue to spread their completely bogus claims that torture is effective,” he said, “then we will have corrupted the beliefs of yet another generation of new intelligence recruits….It takes months and years of ‘intervention’ to get the next generation back on the track of quality work, specialization, and intelligence dominance – not quick and easy fixes. This is not an hour-long TV show.”

[Subotan]

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.....

Only because the nature of the goal the Provos were working for (I.e. a united Ireland) was not best served by an intensive campaign of terror against the civilian population in Great Britain - the IRA always saw themselves as an army fighting a war against the British Army and the Loyalist Paras. That they essentially became a a mafia with rocket launchers that made life hell for the Irishmen they claimed to be fighting for is neither here nor there, as the nature of the conflicts are completely different.

There are lots of examples of Christians murdering populations en masse in the modern world - the Srebenica Massacre, which happened in your lifetime, is one, where over 8,000 men and boys were executed by Christians over the course of about two weeks.

[Fragony]

Oh yeah that. It really stands out doesn't it

[Hax]

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.....

Ah, and how many civilians killed due to retaliatory action in Iraq (which, incidentally, had nothing to do with Osama bin Laden)?

[Tellos Athenaios]

More civilians were killed in the USA in 2001 in car accidents than by terrorist attacks, too. Number of people killed when someone started sending Anthrax by mail in 2001 was about zero but it still ended up being significant 'cause you know it made people go hysteric faced with the prospect of flour or washing powder.

It's not how many people died in 9/11 that made the attack significant: it is that the USA/world felt it so keenly. By contrast the 7-7 bombers had much less lasting effect.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Ah, and how many civilians killed due to retaliatory action in Iraq (which, incidentally, had nothing to do with Osama bin Laden)?

Zero. There was no retaliatory attack to kill Muslims in Iraq.

(Save for some individuals, for example that guy from Wasilla who has just been sentenced by an American court to 24 years imprisonment for the murder of three Afghanis)


Iaqi deaths since 2003 are better compared to how many would've died under the brutal Saddam regime.

[Hax]

Zero. There was no retaliatory attack to kill Muslims in Iraq.

No? Weren't Iraq's supposed ties with al-Qaeda used to justify the invasion at least partially?

Iaqi deaths since 2003 are better compared to how many would've died under the brutal Saddam regime.

Right, the same "brutal Saddam regime" that we thought was totally cool with murdering Kurds and Armenians and Iranians as long as they were at war with Iran, right? Right?

[Shibumi]

Zero. There was no retaliatory attack to kill Muslims in Iraq.

(Save for some individuals, for example that guy from Wasilla who has just been sentenced by an American court to 24 years imprisonment for the murder of three Afghanis)


Iaqi deaths since 2003 are better compared to how many would've died under the brutal Saddam regime.

A majority of republican voters thought 911 was linked to Iraq even years after all facts were out. Eventhough it was clear the US were there to get those weapons of mass destruction.

So, two thumbs up.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Right, the same "brutal Saddam regime" that we thought was totally cool with murdering Kurds and Armenians and Iranians as long as they were at war with Iran, right? Right?

Now therein lies the rub.

When 'we' did business with Saddam, we were accused of supporting him. When we boycotted him, we were accused of starving a million Iraqi children to death.
When we did not attack Saddam, we were accused of not aiding the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi victims of Saddam. When we did attack him, we were accused of killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's in a retaliatory attack.

Can't win this. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

A majority of republican voters thought 911 was linked to Iraq even years after all facts were out. Eventhough it was clear the US were there to get those weapons of mass destruction.

So, two thumbs up.

They also believed that toppling a dictator was the right thing, the 'American' thing, to do. Silly Americans and their willingness to shed their blood to spread democracy.

Sadly many noble intentions were mobilised to a cause which was never free from more cynical motives.

Still, however that may be, Iraq was not a retaliatory attack. The retaliatory attack was last week in Abbottabad.

[Shibumi]

Now therein lies the rub.

When 'we' did business with Saddam, we were accused of supporting him. When we boycotted him, we were accused of starving a million Iraqi children to death.
When we did not attack Saddam, we were accused of not aiding the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi victims of Saddam. When we did attack him, we were accused of killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's in a retaliatory attack.

Can't win this. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You could have stopped selling him weapons and advanced technical hard/software - while letting food and medicine fly freely.

Then you could have supported the populations uprising á la Egypt.

I guess a country is only as intelligent as its president.

[Hax]

You could have stopped selling him weapons and advanced technical hard/software - while letting food and medicine fly freely.

We. We're in this together, people!

Now let's all sit in a circle and sing kumbaya.

[Strike For The South]

You could have stopped selling him weapons and advanced technical hard/software - while letting food and medicine fly freely.

Then you could have supported the populations uprising á la Egypt.

I guess a country is only as intelligent as its president.

MY GOD

SOMEONE TELL THE PRESS WE HAVE AN IDEA!

[Louis VI the Fat]

You could have stopped selling him weapons and advanced technical hard/software - while letting food and medicine fly freely.

Then you could have supported the populations uprising á la Egypt.

I guess a country is only as intelligent as its president.

America is not the only country on the planet. What's Europe ever done for the people of Iraq? Arms deals and oil contracts accompanied by hypocrite talk about the yanks, that's European policy.

Swedish prosecutor Nils-Erik Schultz has told Swedish Television that this week he will finish his investigation of accusations that Scania, the Swedish truck manufacturer, paid bribes to Iraqi officials during the Saddam Hussein era – despite UN sanctions.


Asked to comment on reports that Scania’s CEO Leif Östling could face corruption charges, the head of communications at Scania, Per-Åke Danielsson says he will wait until charges are officially made or completely dropped. He adds that Scania is looking forward to the results of the investigation.


It is previously known that many companies did pay bribes to Iraqi officials back in early 2000 when the country was still subject to UN sanctions. Some estimates made show that as much as 1.6 billion dollars have been paid to officials in Saddam Hussein’s government.
So far two Swedish companies have been implicated and two executives at Volvo have already been charged with violating the sanctions and paying bribes. The investigation into Scania’s actions has dragged on for more than three years.

Sweden does not grant the rest of the world the same treatment as it gives Swedes. Godwin's second law says that wherever there is a brutal dictatorship, there is a Swedish firm selling him whatever he requires:

Sweden is usually in the top five of the world's least corrupt nations when rated by Transparency International in its corruption perception index, but but Swedish companies do not receive the same positive rating.

The Swedish government has also been criticized by Transparency International for not doing enough to monitor Swedish companies abroad to make sure they follow both Swedish and international law.
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=4150383

[Shibumi]

SFTS Calm down. Breathe in. Come back when you have something constructive to write. You are seriously starting to bore me.

Louis, Scania is a Swedish company. You are of course aware of the difference between companies and nations?

Scanias dirty business was brought to light by Swedish media by the way. And they got a lot of flak heading their way for it.

Do not get me wrong, Sweden has done a lot of things I do not agree with. I am no full supporter of our politics (like the jets in Libya or the troops in Afghanistan).

However, when it comes to Iraq your comparison falters a lot. We even tried to tell the US that there were absolutely no WMDs in Iraq.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Louis, Scania is a Swedish company. You are of course aware of the difference between companies and nations?

I am fully aware of the difference. and so is the Swedish state, which hides behind the companies which it supports doing business with the dictators of the world long after everybody else but the Swiss have refused to do business anymore.

Sweden is usually in the top five of the world's least corrupt nations when rated by Transparency International in its corruption perception index, but but Swedish companies do not receive the same positive rating.

The Swedish government has also been criticized by Transparency International for not doing enough to monitor Swedish companies abroad to make sure they follow both Swedish and international law.
link in previous post

Speaking of Libya, Gaddafi too has read the book 'Dictatorship for Dummies', chapter one: 'Avoid sanctions by doing business in Sweden. Buy your boycotted goods in Sweden. Hide you assets safely in Sweden.'

The Libyan dictator, Muammar Gaddafi has has his assets of over skr10 billion frozen in Sweden and it is speculated that that he might even be more given that the EU's economic sanctions was recently extended to cover more companies and individuals likely associated with him and his regime. The nagging question now is how did Gaddafi built up assets in this supposedly stringent country.

The Swedish Financial Services Authority, (Finansinspektionen, FI) would not comment on what has been frozen. “Where they are and what types of assets it is, we can not comment, "said Jonathan Holst, Acting Head of Press at the FI to Dagens Nyheter and refers to banking secrecy.
But if one was to follow the EU's regulations, which declared that all legal entities, ie individuals, governments and companies assets linked to Gaddafi should be frozen. This shows a picture in which bank’s mutual funds, private equity firms and similar have hidden Gaddafi wealth starched.


But here in Sweden, even the Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said that he was surprised at the amount of wealth the dictator and his regime had invested in Sweden.
http://www.scancomark.se/Gaddafi-hid...o-be-sold.html

[gaelic cowboy]

Louis, Scania is a Swedish company. You are of course aware of the difference between companies and nations?

Then the USA can make the same excuse the next time they get caught out by a dictatorship cos the weapons are from private companies just like in Sweden

[Shibumi]

Louis, first of all, you will never ever see me defend Sweden when Sweden fouled up.

However, you quote the Swedish state propaganda channel trashing a banking company. What is your point? That the Swedish government dealt with a situation? You seem to over reach your ability trying to find Swedish flaws here.

If you want help, I can give you some examples of when Sweden really fouled up, to help your case against - what exactly?

Edit:

Then the USA can make the same excuse the next time they get caught out by a dictatorship cos the weapons are from private companies just like in Sweden

Of course. As long as the US itself hang them out and deal with it.

The Swedish state however has not sent assassination squads, if you remember what the thread is about. The US has.

[Jolt]

This video contains one swear word:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Lemur]

I didn't think anyone could make great comedy out of OBL's death. I was wrong. Obi-Wan Kenobi Is Dead, Vader Says. The real comedy genius is in the comments:

"Why are we still giving aid to Tatooine? They probably knew of Kenobi's existence the whole time and even helped him! That whole planet is just a big hive of scum and villainy."

"I love how the liberal rag GET keeps referring our Defense Star as the 'Death Star'. Take that propaganda back to Courescant, Nerfherder!!!"

"Let's be CLEAR this is not a VADER victory but a victory of our boys in white, not to mention the leadership of Lord Tyrannus the Count Dooku who started the manhunt in the first place."

"Can anybody explain to me why in some publications his name is spelled 'Obi-Wan' and in others it is spelled 'Ubi-Wan'?"

"And now that Vader has done what Emperor Palpatine couldn't do in 7 years, the imperialists are trying to give old wrinkleface all the credit."

[Fragony]

#winning (sorry was waiting for an excuse to say that)

[drone]

If only Lucas could write as well...

[Louis VI the Fat]

Excellent timing.

I've got a congress in a few days. About Jediphobia. Me and my buddy are going to board a domestic planetary flight on Coruscant, dressed up in full Jedi gear to see what will happen.

[Fragony]

Excellent timing.

I've got a congress in a few days. About Jediphobia. Me and my buddy are going to board a domestic planetary flight on Coruscant, dressed up in full Jedi gear to see what will happen.

A big black man with a huge purple sabre is going to tell you he's your daddy

[Louis VI the Fat]

A big black man with a huge purple sabre is going to tell you he's your daddy

Huh?? I think you're mistaken? Strike's not Black.

[drone]

McCain (2000 version, apparently) responds on torture. Key text:

I asked CIA Director Leon Panetta for the facts, and he told me the following: The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The first mention of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nickname of the al-Qaeda courier who ultimately led us to bin Laden — as well as a description of him as an important member of al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country, who we believe was not tortured. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts or an accurate description of his role in al-Qaeda.

In fact, the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” on Khalid Sheik Mohammed produced false and misleading information. He specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married and ceased his role as an al-Qaeda facilitator — none of which was true. According to the staff of the Senate intelligence committee, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee — information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in al-Qaeda and his true relationship to bin Laden — was obtained through standard, noncoercive means.

[Viking]

Oh boy (?)

Pornography found in bin Laden hideout: officials

A stash of pornography was found in the hideout of Osama bin Laden by the U.S. commandos who killed him, current and former U.S. officials said on Friday.

The pornography recovered in bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, consists of modern, electronically recorded video and is fairly extensive, according to the officials, who discussed the discovery with Reuters on condition of anonymity.

The officials said they were not yet sure precisely where in the compound the pornography was discovered or who had been viewing it. Specifically, the officials said they did not know if bin Laden himself had acquired or viewed the materials.

Would be hilarious if true.