Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 120

Thread: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

  1. #1
    EB:NOM Triumvir Member gamegeek2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hanover, NH
    Posts
    3,569

    Default EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Greetings, denizens of the Campus Martius....


    Today I am very proud to present you with

    The Unofficial EB Online export_descr_unit File, version 2.0.


    Introduction

    The whole concept of a heavily altered online EDU came up in a conversation between Vartan and I when we were discussing what might come up in the online tournament. Several definite conclusions were reached between us about what ought to be changed. I then proposed that I make a new EDU for the upcoming summer of EB Online, as a way of correcting perceived imbalances and injecting a shot of vitality into the whole EB Online metagame.

    The original goals of the alterations were fairly simple - to make phalanxes more vulnerable to missile attack, to increase the effectiveness of shortswords, and to depower certain units such as Thraikioi Peltastai. However, the goals became very quickly much more far-reaching, with hundreds of documented changes, from small tweaks to major restattings of certain units.

    At its core, this project seeks to further the EB team's goal with the original unit stats - to create a balanced battle system through historical accuracy.

    For the full list of instructions for EB Online, be sure to visit http://www.ebonline.tk/getting-started.html

    A Short List of Major Changes

    Obviously this EDU changes a lot, but here, I have listed a short list of changes that I feel will be the most impactful on EB Online gameplay, with explanations.

    -Lethality of all kopides & falcatae increased from 0.11 to 0.135, and lethality of all axes & maces decreased from 0.165 to 0.15
    Reasoning: The original EB stat system made falcatae/kopides more expensive than axes/maces and gave them a lethaltiy of 0.11; axes and maces were cheaper and had 1 less attack but a lethality of 0.165. Given what we know of RTW battle mechanics this means that falcatae and kopides were more expensive but less effective versions of axes and maces. This did not make sense because historically, falcatae and kopides were highly effective weapons, and it was also imbalanced from a gameplay perspective. The new stat setup is designed so that the two weapons are of roughly equal effectiveness.

    -Prodromoi armour decreased to 9 and cost decreased to 2210. Carthaginian Citizen Cavalry defense skill reduced to 8.
    Reasoning: The EB depiction of prodromoi features heavy armour including facemasks and scale-reinforced linothorax cuirasses. Historically, such xyston-wielding light horsemen rarely had anything more than a linothorax and helmet, but we have decided to stat them so they are on par with the Carthaginian citizen cavalry, which had a defense skill decrease. Previously, Prodromoi were often used as a "filler" cavalry unit, that were relatively cheap but still fairly resistant to missiles for their cost and able to drive home a charge well. Now, their cost has been reduced, but their durability against missiles and their ability to avoid casualties during a charge have both been reduced, which (I believe) outweighs the cost reduction. This is part of an overall effort to reduce the importance of lance-armed cavalry in EB Online battles, as lance-armed horsemen were historically not the majority of cavalry as they typically are in EB Online battles.

    -Shortsword lethality increased to a minimum of 0.13, and made 0.15 for units that have been deemed "trained in its use"
    Reasoning: Before this change, many shortsword-wielding troops had only 0.1 lethality, which made them useless, when historically they played valuable army roles. For example, Galatian shortswordsmen were historically an important part of Galatian armies, and effective melee fighters for their cost, but this was not the case with the previous stat system. Also, there was very little reason to use shortswords instead of spears for units like Iphikratous Hoplitai, even though such units were historically trained in their use.

    -Cavalry charge bonuses redone on a new system
    Reasoning: The old system failed to give cavalry an increased charge power based on training, only based on horse and weapon type. The new system takes into account training, horse, and weapon type. In particular, it increased the charge effectiveness of overhand spear wielding cavalry, though this is also due to an increase in overhand spear cavalry lethality.

    -Pre-Marian Roman heavy infantry cost reduction reduced to -10%
    Reasoning: Previously, pre-Marian romans were only allowed to use 91.7% of the money available to other factions in "official" games - 33,000 mnai in a 36,000 mnai game, for example - because of how cheap their units were. The need for rules to restrict the money available to some factions at a certain era indicates, to I and some others, a problem in unit balance. There is also historical reasoning behind this: Pre-Marian Romans were only able to draw on Roman citizens for Hastati, Principes, and Triarii. While the mandatory service system and a large population did give romans a large manpower supply that would reduce the cost of recruiting infantry, it was not to the extent that it would be in post-Marian times, where legionaries could be recruited from all Roman citizens, which included all the former Socii.

    -All horse archers have arrow attack values reduced by 1.

    Reasoning: The EB stat system, as it is, fails to represent the lower accuracy of horse archers compared with foot archers. Instead of modifying the descr_projectile_new file and making everybody install an additional file, I have decided that it is just simpler to lower the power of horse archers' arrows. This is historical as well, as EB itself describes, as foot archers were able to use bows with more powerful draw, or draw their bows more effectively in general, thus firing off more powerful and penetrating shots.

    -Thraikioi Peltastai have the AP ability on their secondary weapon removed.
    Reasoning: Thraikioi Peltastai were able to serve as the best of pretty much everything that wasn't a phalanx, cavalryman, or archer, in Hellenic armies because of their combination of excellent skirmishing abilities and high-lethality armour-piercing secondary weapons that could cleave through cataphracts and Carnute Cingetos alike. Also, a rhomphaia wielded in one hand lacks the force and penetrating power of one swung with two hands, thus making it difficult to produce the same sort of devastating results as a Drapanes; yet compared to the Drapanai, the Peltastai had only two less attack! Hence, they have had their AP ability removed, and their secondary has been given +1 attack, so it is comparable to a longsword in effectiveness, which I and others feel is an appropriate level of power. Testing has shown that the Peltastai remain a decently armoured, highly effective unit capable in many roles, but no longer able to just cleave through enemies like their two-handed cousins, the Drapanai.



    Shout-Outs and Balloons

    -To Vartan, for supporting and encouraging the project from start to completion, well worth two.

    -To Antisocialmunky, for providing valuable and indispensable insight and a game or two to boot - two in one!

    -To Lusitanian Wolf, AGATHODAIMON, LMT_710, stormrage, and The Celtic Viking for playing entertaining, challenging, and insightful testing games.
    Last edited by gamegeek2; 05-28-2011 at 20:10.
    Europa Barbarorum: Novus Ordo Mundi - Mod Leader Europa Barbarorum - Team Member

    Quote Originally Posted by skullheadhq
    Run Hax! For slave master gamegeek has arrived
    "To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace." -Calgacus

  2. #2

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Well done GG2, I'm very proud and very thankful. Intuition tells me many, many good experiences are to come for all MP players.
    EB Online Founder | Website
    Former Projects:
    - Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack

    - Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
    - EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
    - Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)

  3. #3
    Unbowed Unbent Unbroken Member Lazy O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,046

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Good job mate, really good job.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    [21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
    i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting

  4. #4
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    I like the sound of these changes - I guess one could use the file for SP games as well as MP ones? Or would there be any issues arising?

    BTW, you mentioned an aim of the project being to make phalanxes more vulnerable to missiles, but I can't see a major change listed that addresses that.

  5. #5
    Involuntary Gaesatae Member The Celtic Viking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In the heart of Hyperborea
    Posts
    2,962

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Well done, mate.

    Quote Originally Posted by econ21
    BTW, you mentioned an aim of the project being to make phalanxes more vulnerable to missiles, but I can't see a major change listed that addresses that.
    There are many changes that he didn't post in this thread but are in the documentation. I'll quote the part about phalanxes:

    --- PHALANXES ---
    Mass of all phalangites reduced by 0.2
    Pike lethality increased to 0.2, attack -2
    Shields restatted based on actual size (no longer 5)
    +2 defense
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21
    I like the sound of these changes - I guess one could use the file for SP games as well as MP ones? Or would there be any issues arising?
    There would be a problem with unit ownership, as many are removed for the MP version.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking View Post
    There would be a problem with unit ownership, as many are removed for the MP version.
    Ok, thanks. If anyone adapts this file for SP use, it would be great if they could share it.

  7. #7
    Involuntary Gaesatae Member The Celtic Viking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In the heart of Hyperborea
    Posts
    2,962

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Your wish is not my command, but I went ahead and did it anyway.

    You can get it here: http://www.mediafire.com/?tzxtyq9n7y3htv3

    Just unrar it to your Rome - Total War folder. (After making backups, of course.)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking View Post
    Your wish is not my command, but I went ahead and did it anyway.
    Cheers, mate.


  9. #9
    Member Member lmt96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vung Tau, Vietnam
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Cheers!
    From Gamegeek2

  10. #10

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    I'm not being able do dowload it =S



  11. #11
    Involuntary Gaesatae Member The Celtic Viking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In the heart of Hyperborea
    Posts
    2,962

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    As I was looking through the Epeirote roster and seeing which units are factional, I noticed one discrepancy. Even though Hippeis Thessalonikoi are listed on the website as factional for Epeiros, they're not actually in their roster in game. Is this an EDU error or is it on the side of the factional units list? They're on the list under Epeiros on the official EB website, so unfortunately it seems to me to be the former, but maybe there's a reason for this?
    Last edited by The Celtic Viking; 05-28-2011 at 00:56.

  12. #12

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Such an embarrassing mistake on our part not to spot that. Thank you TCV, very much. I have updated the MP EDU installer and the fixed version is now up on the EBO site for y'all to download.

    Thanks again!
    EB Online Founder | Website
    Former Projects:
    - Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack

    - Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
    - EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
    - Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)

  13. #13

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Am I blind or there isnt any download link for the last update?



  14. #14
    EB:NOM Triumvir Member gamegeek2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hanover, NH
    Posts
    3,569

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Wolf, I have directed you to the website for that.
    Europa Barbarorum: Novus Ordo Mundi - Mod Leader Europa Barbarorum - Team Member

    Quote Originally Posted by skullheadhq
    Run Hax! For slave master gamegeek has arrived
    "To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace." -Calgacus

  15. #15
    Unbowed Unbent Unbroken Member Lazy O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,046

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    [21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
    i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting

  16. #16

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Quote Originally Posted by LusitanianWolf View Post
    Am I blind or there isnt any download link for the last update?
    Keep checking the website. The only things I can vouch for are my site and any threads I run here. The one exception would be the EDU thread I had GG2 create, but not even that now, since discrepancies came up. As you can see on the home page of the site, I posted news updates regarding the changes. At any rate, the last version was uploaded. This means that the very same DL link for the EDU on the site now obtains you the latest version. And that is the version to be used for upcoming tournament series. I hope that clears things up...
    EB Online Founder | Website
    Former Projects:
    - Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack

    - Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
    - EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
    - Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)

  17. #17
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Assaulting your flanks
    Posts
    1,475

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Having trouble dl'ing the 2.0 edu. I download it, it takes me to my program to unzip the file which then informs me that .7z is not a file type which can be used with this program. I'm confused.
    From Frontline for fixing siege towers of death
    x30 From mikepettytw for showing how to edit in game text.
    From Brennus for wit.

  18. #18

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin View Post
    Having trouble dl'ing the 2.0 edu. I download it, it takes me to my program to unzip the file which then informs me that .7z is not a file type which can be used with this program. I'm confused.
    I'm sorry about that. I will convert all the downloads to simple .zip files over the course of time (ASAP). I'm just accustomed to 7z compression (google 7-zip). In the meantime you can get the installer directly at the following link:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?346z3d473yxymwl
    EB Online Founder | Website
    Former Projects:
    - Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack

    - Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
    - EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
    - Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)

  19. #19
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Assaulting your flanks
    Posts
    1,475

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    I'm sorry about that. I will convert all the downloads to simple .zip files over the course of time (ASAP). I'm just accustomed to 7z compression (google 7-zip). In the meantime you can get the installer directly at the following link:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?346z3d473yxymwl
    Thank you good sir. Much appreciated.
    From Frontline for fixing siege towers of death
    x30 From mikepettytw for showing how to edit in game text.
    From Brennus for wit.

  20. #20

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    gg2 keep notes for what to update for the 2.1 release. We're going to start by proofreading mistakes, such as Ktistai (Dacian Noble Cavalry) having eagles (bonus command) they shouldn't have...do you know of any similar mistakes?

    EDIT: gg2, basically what I'm saying is unless we're talking about First Cohorts or something like that (Druids?), only generals should have eagles. This is our only way of incentivizing generals. Having Ktistai and other similar eagled units ruins the whole point of gen-eagles.
    Last edited by vartan; 06-04-2011 at 08:53.
    EB Online Founder | Website
    Former Projects:
    - Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack

    - Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
    - EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
    - Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)

  21. #21
    Unbowed Unbent Unbroken Member Lazy O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,046

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    You could re adjust the horrible pricing of the Baktrian HA, with their mediocre armor, inability to form cantabrian, and not so great ranged attack, they are pretty worthless. Also, Indian Longbows have less range than Persians and Sakae?


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    [21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
    i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting

  22. #22
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Assaulting your flanks
    Posts
    1,475

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    gg2 keep notes for what to update for the 2.1 release. We're going to start by proofreading mistakes, such as Ktistai (Dacian Noble Cavalry) having eagles (bonus command) they shouldn't have...do you know of any similar mistakes?

    EDIT: gg2, basically what I'm saying is unless we're talking about First Cohorts or something like that (Druids?), only generals should have eagles. This is our only way of incentivizing generals. Having Ktistai and other similar eagled units ruins the whole point of gen-eagles.
    Its my understanding that Ktistai served in much the same role as Druids did among Celts, hence the eagle.

    As far as Indian Longbowmen, I'm unsure of which weapon would have longer range though I would tend to favor a compound bow over a longbow. However, their missile attack should probably be a little higher as their bows were so large they planted them in the ground to fire. I would think the arrows would be of a similar size to the Caucasian Archers in this case. And even if they are not changed, they certainly still have their uses as Eastern Drapanai.
    From Frontline for fixing siege towers of death
    x30 From mikepettytw for showing how to edit in game text.
    From Brennus for wit.

  23. #23

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    The Baktrian HA is not a lancer. It's a melee medium cav combined with archer ability. Also, it has ridiculous amounts of armour for a horse archer unit. It's one of those more outlandish units, take-it-or-leave-it sort of unit. As for Indian Longbowmen, they probably have 10m less range than Caucasians due to their bow type. Their increased cost is similarly probably due to their melee weapon. I've seen them used cleverly by players as AP melee units, same with Numidian archers.

    If the Ktistai indeed were an encouragement to their fellow compatriots, why weren't Hetairoi and Kataphraktoi the same for Hellenes and "Easterners"? Creme de la creme elites would all have that similar psychological role, but you don't see eagles on all such units...what's the correct compromise? I'm not sure.
    EB Online Founder | Website
    Former Projects:
    - Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack

    - Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
    - EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
    - Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)

  24. #24
    EB:NOM Triumvir Member gamegeek2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hanover, NH
    Posts
    3,569

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    The Ktistai are priests, that was my reasoning.
    Europa Barbarorum: Novus Ordo Mundi - Mod Leader Europa Barbarorum - Team Member

    Quote Originally Posted by skullheadhq
    Run Hax! For slave master gamegeek has arrived
    "To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace." -Calgacus

  25. #25
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Assaulting your flanks
    Posts
    1,475

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    It seems that the Saba general's BG do not possess a command eagle. Just wanted to let you know if you plan on updating.
    From Frontline for fixing siege towers of death
    x30 From mikepettytw for showing how to edit in game text.
    From Brennus for wit.

  26. #26
    Member Member lmt96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vung Tau, Vietnam
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin View Post
    It seems that the Saba general's BG do not possess a command eagle. Just wanted to let you know if you plan on updating.
    Stormrage would be angry with this
    From Gamegeek2

  27. #27

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    I played many time with this EDU and I found some thing that seems me wrong.
    First is the naked fanatics invulnerability by missiles (they died only after the 3rd or 4th volley of arrows, or javelins).
    Second is the difference between lusitani and romans: take a look, that lusitani seems to be an overpowered romani (falcata is too better than gladius and solifera are too better than pilum).
    Third the excessive weakening of hastati make them absolutely unuseful as heavy infantry (lower armour, lower morale, unuseful increase of size from 40 to 50, plus they still carry the same malus in woods as others heavy inf).

    Anyway some others things are better than EDU1.2, like cav and eastern infantry.
    Please, take care about my 3 suggestions ;-)
    Proud Roman General




  28. #28
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    ゞ( ゚Д゚)ゞ
    Posts
    5,974

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Lusotani are a little ridiculous yes.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

  29. #29
    Member Member Burebista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bucharest, Romania
    Posts
    199

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aulus Caecina Severus View Post
    I played many time with this EDU and I found some thing that seems me wrong.
    First is the naked fanatics invulnerability by missiles (they died only after the 3rd or 4th volley of arrows, or javelins).
    Second is the difference between lusitani and romans: take a look, that lusitani seems to be an overpowered romani (falcata is too better than gladius and solifera are too better than pilum).
    Gaesatae have 2 hp thus the late deaths.

    As far as falcatas are involved , you should see the general perspective. What ar the players playing? Mostly phalanxes , with 2 romans and 1 Carthage .
    OP ? dont think so as i am the only one playing them.
    Romans have higher manpower , for less cost , which ultimately is why romans are better than lusitani.

  30. #30
    Unbowed Unbent Unbroken Member Lazy O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,046

    Default Re: EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

    Lusitani do not have the armor to withstand Pila, legions do, and I dont think Hastati are meant to be Heavy infantry at the cost of 1100 or 1200 -.-


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    [21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
    i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO