Next-next gen consoles, why bother?

[Fragony]

Rumours are that the newest xbox will soon be revealed. I have this 'who cares' feeling, I cannot think of anything that can set it apart, besides better even better graphics but graphics are already good. We know that the latest Wii will be somewhat more powerfull than the PS3, like the Wii was slightly more powerful than the Cube, oddball Nintendo will probably score again. What is on your wishlist, only hologram-projection or something like that can awe me at the moment probably

[Krusader]

Wireless keyboard+mouse (made for couch sitting) for a few titles? I know that would make CA make any TW for consoles ASAP.

Really don't know. I got my PS3 and think I'll keep it for a good number of years. After all it seems most console generations take a year before they have good selection of titles.

[Fragony]

You can already do that, just plug them in

[Samurai Waki]

I'm completely tired of Console gaming, I'd rather see further development in the interactivity department rather than the graphics department. Nintendo has some good ideas as to how to resolve those problems (Holo-Controllers using high frequency sound waves ftw!) If that's indeed possible, as they've claimed in the past, I'd be far more curious to see what that's about rather than new graphics.

[gaelic cowboy]

Dont believe a word of it Frag neither Sony or Microsoft have made enough money to justify a new consloe i say were safe for another two year

[lars573]

I'm completely tired of Console gaming, I'd rather see further development in the interactivity department rather than the graphics department. Nintendo has some good ideas as to how to resolve those problems (Holo-Controllers using high frequency sound waves ftw!) If that's indeed possible, as they've claimed in the past, I'd be far more curious to see what that's about rather than new graphics.

Well some of the rumors I've read about the new Nintendo console is that they're dropping motion only control. The native controller is a bit like the DS, but with tilt control like a PS3 controller. That they can't rely solely on the casual audience that the Wii brought. They need the "hardcore gamer" audience as much as the casual.

[Mailman653]

I was under the impression that a new Sony or MS console was still two to four years away.

Update: Just saw this on IGN:E3 2011 Predictions

[naut]

Nintendo will probably spew out another lump of poo sometime in the future. Microsoft and Sony will probably delay, more money to be milked from the current generation. Although Microsoft will be the next to follow Nintendo.

[drone]

Nintendo's new console will have an advantage though. The video resolution for the next decade (at least) is capped at 1080p, they will be able to use a video chipset that is cooler and more efficient than the PS3/XBox360 without having to push the envelope at the cost of reliability, and without having to worry about becoming obsolete when the PS4/XBoxWhatever comes along. A lot of things were in flux when the last generation came out, now the targets are set, 1080p, BluRay, built-in networking, and software takes care of the rest.

[Fragony]

Nintendo's new console will have an advantage though. The video resolution for the next decade (at least) is capped at 1080p, they will be able to use a video chipset that is cooler and more efficient than the PS3/XBox360 without having to push the envelope at the cost of reliability, and without having to worry about becoming obsolete when the PS4/XBoxWhatever comes along. A lot of things were in flux when the last generation came out, now the targets are set, 1080p, BluRay, built-in networking, and software takes care of the rest.

Absolutely. Waiting for HD to settle was smart. Just as waiting for 3d tv to settle is smart now. All the tech they need is cheap and reliable.

[lars573]

Nintendo's new console will have an advantage though. The video resolution for the next decade (at least) is capped at 1080p, they will be able to use a video chipset that is cooler and more efficient than the PS3/XBox360 without having to push the envelope at the cost of reliability, and without having to worry about becoming obsolete when the PS4/XBoxWhatever comes along. A lot of things were in flux when the last generation came out, now the targets are set, 1080p, BluRay, built-in networking, and software takes care of the rest.

Blu-Ray is a no go for Microsoft and Nintendo as their physical media. In the same way that the Wii doesn't use DVD's. Sony was one of the main partners in it's development, and gets the royalty monies from Blu-Ray licensing. Nintendo will probably come up with something similar in capacity as a bluray disk and go with that.

[drone]

Blu-Ray is a no go for Microsoft and Nintendo as their physical media. In the same way that the Wii doesn't use DVD's. Sony was one of the main partners in it's development, and gets the royalty monies from Blu-Ray licensing. Nintendo will probably come up with something similar in capacity as a bluray disk and go with that.

I had thought about that, but with BluRay as the defacto winner of the hi-def DVD war, I think they have to bite the bullet if they want to offer an all-in-one solution for an entertainment console. DVDs, BluRay, and some form of Netflix-like streaming capability are going to have to be standard for the next gen console. The games may not use the standard BR formats, but the physical reader will have to be able to read BluRay movies.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Sony and Microsoft are not going to be even announcing a new console until 2014 at least. Xbox slim is a good improvement over the first xbox 360s that came out oh so long ago and Sony has been having such a blunder after blunder setup with the PS3 (First the timing, then the price, then the games etc...now the online) that they still need to commit to it before switching to another console, otherwise Sony risks their fiscal standing in the video game market.

Nintendo is running loops around everyone because their Wii sold a bunch of console and Wii fit's to moms and casual gamers, but it still isn't seen if they can make something that will attract the type of crowds that almost run exclusively in the Microsoft/Sony crowd like the entire FPS fan base.

[lars573]

It's not just that. The Wii sold a lot of the hardware, but outside of the 1st party stuff the software sales are in the toilet.

[drone]

I believe Nintendo made a profit on the consoles from day 1 though, and they sold tons of them. It took 2-3 years before the PS3/Xbox360 hardware stopped being a loss on their respective gaming divisions. Sony and Microsoft relied on game license fees to turn a profit.

It's likely that the next Nintendo will be both superior hardware to the PS3/Xbox, and also a plus on the accounting sheets from the start. Microsoft and Sony will be in an interesting position, they will know Nintendo's hand, but will not be able to improve much on it graphically as that pipe is now fixed to 1080p. If Nintendo can improve on it's input devices and attract some ports from 3rd parties, they can be a player. Financially, Sony and Microsoft want to get at least 3 more years out their existing consoles, if the new Nintendo is vastly superior it can grab some interest from developers and Nintendo can get some momentum.

[lars573]

I believe Nintendo made a profit on the consoles from day 1 though, and they sold tons of them. It took 2-3 years before the PS3/Xbox360 hardware stopped being a loss on their respective gaming divisions. Sony and Microsoft relied on game license fees to turn a profit.

Yes Nintendo did. By using "off the shelf" technology, and a final machine whose power was an Xbox 1.5. And the planned and expected time to start truning a profit on Hardware manufacturing for a system like the Xbox 360/PS3 is 18 months to 2 years. And I believe the current gen consoles got to the profitability point at just over 18 months for Microsoft and just under 18 months for Sony.

It's likely that the next Nintendo will be both superior hardware to the PS3/Xbox, and also a plus on the accounting sheets from the start. Microsoft and Sony will be in an interesting position, they will know Nintendo's hand, but will not be able to improve much on it graphically as that pipe is now fixed to 1080p. If Nintendo can improve on it's input devices and attract some ports from 3rd parties, they can be a player. Financially, Sony and Microsoft want to get at least 3 more years out their existing consoles, if the new Nintendo is vastly superior it can grab some interest from developers and Nintendo can get some momentum.

3rd party support is going to quite hard to line up for Nintendo. The big boys like EA and Actiblizzion have been burned not once, but thrice, by Nintendo's console hardware choices. Meaning that it was far to expensive (or in the case of the N64 barely possible) for them to port their Tent-pole AAA titles to the weaker/much differently architectured Nintendo hardware. Then if you do see a version of said AAA title it's been developed by a smaller Wii centric developer. And is essentially a different game, requiring the full cost of development. As given the cost of development these days 3rd party publishers want to save dev. monies by building one version of the game (usually the 360) and porting it as far as possible.

The dust in the current console round has in fact settled. And some things have emerged. Firstly motion controlled gaming, while not totally a fad, has become a niche market. And not the game changer that everyone though it was in 2006. That Nintendo is rumoured to make motion control on their new machine not unlike the Xbox kinect and Playstation move is proof of that. Secondly while the Wii sold hardware like gang busters. It's software sales were crap. With a large percentage of those who bought a Wii only buying a handful of games, and most of them were from a Nintendo 1st party dev. Thirdly Sony and Microsoft are extending this gen lifetime due to the rising costs. And the fact that the improvement of graphical and preprocessing hardware generations is still not a great as it was in the past.

[drone]

Yes Nintendo did. By using "off the shelf" technology, and a final machine whose power was an Xbox 1.5. And the planned and expected time to start truning a profit on Hardware manufacturing for a system like the Xbox 360/PS3 is 18 months to 2 years. And I believe the current gen consoles got to the profitability point at just over 18 months for Microsoft and just under 18 months for Sony.

I think both Sony and MS planned for 2.5 years, and got under that, but not by much. I'm not sure if Nintendo planned it this way, but the Wii was the perfect console for the time. It didn't cost much to make or buy, got a lot of sales from people who normally wouldn't get a console, and got them through a time of change and uncertainty with good profits. The short lifespan doesn't matter, it was a great stopgap, and if they plan it right with the next one they are back in the game.

The dust in the current console round has in fact settled. And some things have emerged. Firstly motion controlled gaming, while not totally a fad, has become a niche market. And not the game changer that everyone though it was in 2006. That Nintendo is rumoured to make motion control on their new machine not unlike the Xbox kinect and Playstation move is proof of that.

No argument here. Nintendo will have to do something really unique to duplicate the Wii's success if the hardware is lacking.

Secondly while the Wii sold hardware like gang busters. It's software sales were crap. With a large percentage of those who bought a Wii only buying a handful of games, and most of them were from a Nintendo 1st party dev.

You are thinking like a gamer, not a CEO.

Thirdly Sony and Microsoft are extending this gen lifetime due to the rising costs. And the fact that the improvement of graphical and preprocessing hardware generations is still not a great as it was in the past.

Which plays into Nintendo's hands, if they are smart about it. They can have a smoking fast console on the market for 2-3 years before the competition responds, and the responses will not be that much better than what Nintendo puts out there.

[lars573]

I think both Sony and MS planned for 2.5 years, and got under that, but not by much. I'm not sure if Nintendo planned it this way, but the Wii was the perfect console for the time. It didn't cost much to make or buy, got a lot of sales from people who normally wouldn't get a console, and got them through a time of change and uncertainty with good profits. The short lifespan doesn't matter, it was a great stopgap, and if they plan it right with the next one they are back in the game.

It's a changing market and tech realities has given Nintendo a better position than they've had in 15 years. But I was watching the early days
of this gen, and the fanboy flame wars on other websites. Whom would trumpet LOUDLY when MS or Sony got their console to the profitability point. And both had planned for a max of 2 years. And both got to is at around 18 months. Nintendo's problem, and what led to the Wii being what it is, is that they couldn't shoulder the billions in losses that MS and Sony can and did. Hey look at that it worked great this time.

No argument here. Nintendo will have to do something really unique to duplicate the Wii's success if the hardware is lacking.

I can't say if the hardware will be lacking. But with the fact that gaming tech now and gaming tech in 05 isn't as huge of a gap between say the PS1 and PS2 generations. But again the rumours I've read state they're going for a more traditional system that can use Wii motion control hardware. So it won't lack for power. But until MS and Sony tip their hand a bit it's relative power means nothing.

You are thinking like a gamer, not a CEO.

It's no secret that Nintendo has a troubled relationship with 3rd party publishers. And I read quite a few op-ed pieces about the slow sales of Wii software. Including one that opened with an anecdote about a one of those millions of casual gamers coming into a Gamestop and begging the store clerk for a decent Wii game. I might have exaggerated a little but it's become clear that it's easy to sell a Wii system, but harder to sell it's games.

Which plays into Nintendo's hands, if they are smart about it. They can have a smoking fast console on the market for 2-3 years before the competition responds, and the responses will not be that much better than what Nintendo puts out there.

The question is how smart are they. Fiscal realities dictated the Wii, but Nintendo's arrogance created the N64 and Gamecube. I really hope that 2 blunders and a wake up call have given them the wisdom they need to play at the level of Sony and MS like they once did. Or maybe they are comfortable in the nice they've carved out. A slightly less powerful system that costs less than the other guys.

[TinCow]

Blu-Ray is a no go for Microsoft and Nintendo as their physical media. In the same way that the Wii doesn't use DVD's. Sony was one of the main partners in it's development, and gets the royalty monies from Blu-Ray licensing. Nintendo will probably come up with something similar in capacity as a bluray disk and go with that.

I don't think that's relevant. Sony was also a partner in the development of CDs and receives a portion of Philips' royalties, but Nintendo has used CDs for a long time. This is an area that Nintendo doesn't really have much room left to work with. Data storage formats are standardized for a reason, and they abandoned their attempts at proprietary cartridges long ago, for obvious reasons. Worth noting on this subject that Nintendo have only themselves to blame for the Playstation; they created their own competition when they broke their partnership with Sony on the SNES CD console. If Nintendo hadn't blundered there, Sony probably never would have entered the console market.

Nintendo and Microsoft aren't in the format business anyway, so Blu-ray isn't really competition for them. Blu-ray was competition for Toshiba and all partners of Toshiba, but that war was lost long ago and is now pointless. Even Toshiba makes Blu-ray players now, so I cannot fathom why Nintendo or Microsoft would balk at utilizing Blu-ray.

Worth noting as well that the X-Box division of Microsoft is pushing strongly to be spun off into its own company. They don't like being tethered to Microsoft anymore and want to cut ties.

[drone]

Worth noting as well that the X-Box division of Microsoft is pushing strongly to be spun off into its own company. They don't like being tethered to Microsoft anymore and want to cut ties.

This would be hilarious. Microsoft put a lot of money and effort into undermining their main profit base (PCs) with the XBox, to set them free after finally getting it respectable would be really, really stupid.

But I was watching the early days of this gen, and the fanboy flame wars on other websites. Whom would trumpet LOUDLY when MS or Sony got their console to the profitability point. And both had planned for a max of 2 years. And both got to is at around 18 months.

These match most of what I recall:
PS3 hardware profitable, April 2010
XBox, Jan 2008, profitability expected projection from May 2007
The XBox is nebulous though, their RROD issues really messed with the bottom line. And I'm sure the various SKUs for both make an real, actual per-piece profit/loss number hard to compute (as well as where they were sold).

[TinCow]

This would be hilarious. Microsoft put a lot of money and effort into undermining their main profit base (PCs) with the XBox, to set them free after finally getting it respectable would be really, really stupid.

Goldman Sachs disagrees. Their suggestion is that it would still be owned by Microsoft (and thus MS would profit from it) but that it wouldn't be run by Microsoft anymore. Thus, XBox would be freed from being tethered to a product that many people dislike (Windows). I suspect this is related to the situation.

[drone]

Goldman Sachs disagrees. Their suggestion is that it would still be owned by Microsoft (and thus MS would profit from it) but that it wouldn't be run by Microsoft anymore. Thus, XBox would be freed from being tethered to a product that many people dislike (Windows). I suspect this is related to the situation.

It would be great for EDD (apart from losing the vast cash reserves MS has), but in my opinion bad for the main company. The Platform Products and Services division (Windows and Server) is set to take a beating, and the success of the XBox (and "devices") is a large part of that.

[drone]

Sorry for the double post, but saw this today:

Sony admitting they won't be cutting edge with the PS4.

[Mailman653]

E3 2011 Nintendo Press Conference: Wii U Unveiled

[Beskar]

The question is how smart are they. Fiscal realities dictated the Wii, but Nintendo's arrogance created the N64 and Gamecube. I really hope that 2 blunders and a wake up call have given them the wisdom they need to play at the level of Sony and MS like they once did. Or maybe they are comfortable in the nice they've carved out. A slightly less powerful system that costs less than the other guys.

The N64 was a very good console, it was the best in it's era. What let it down was the mass privacy of Sony's game titles since everyone and their pet dog used to rent a game, copy it via the pc and burn 10 copies of it and give it out.

People who used to have a Play Station all had it "chipped" and they all had pirated games.

[Fragony]

N64 was brilliant at the time.

Ok, the next Wii is going to rock. It gets many a title you wouldn't expect and it's going to be cheap. The controller looks like a tablet, cool stuff with great potential, they showed some great idea's. It's also fully backwards compatible.

#want

[edyzmedieval]

I'm sticking to my PC.

[Graphic]

I'll upgrade from my PS3 when blu rays become obsolete. Its the only reason I own it.

[Fragony]

I'm sticking to my PC.

Wash before you hug it, it's warm there

[lars573]

The N64 was a very good console, it was the best in it's era. What let it down was the mass privacy of Sony's game titles since everyone and their pet dog used to rent a game, copy it via the pc and burn 10 copies of it and give it out.

People who used to have a Play Station all had it "chipped" and they all had pirated games.

Using unfounded generalities are fun! I never knew anyone who had a chipped system. I heard about them of course. The N64 might have been a capable system, but being cart based chased away developers in droves. They were all wanting to put fmv's and CD audio on their games. Things the N64 couldn't do until the end of it's life time, and they were crap quality. That and Sony's attitude about the relationship between themselves and 3rd party companies.

So really then as now it's about software. I liked both, had both. The PS1 with it's audio could give you some much more immersive games than the N64's walls of text and 2 second sound clips.

I'm sticking to my PC.

This attitude was dangerously backward 6 years ago. It's a shameful fossil in two thousand and eleven.