EB Online EDU v2.1 - RELEASE!

[Vega]

that is a stupid question lazy, what about iberian assault infratry whos can smash roman cohorts without problems and they cost only 2200

[Lazy O]

Because they are not very good against most other stuff?. neitos also cost 2200, cohorts are cheaper, so it makes sense that they lose.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Haha, cohorts are substantially cheaper in fact.

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

Haha, cohorts are substantially cheaper in fact.

Cohors are substantially underpowered as more as possible.
Playing mp, legionaries simply do not count.
Roman player could save himself only with his cavalry (at least decent), then not in roman way.

[-Stormrage-]

Cohors are substantially underpowered as more as possible.

Since when is a heavily armored, sword armed, 100 man unit, that costs less then 2000 minai, UNDERPOWERED?

im not very inteligble about roman troops so i might be missing something here.

[Kival]

Since when is a heavily armored, sword armed, 100 man unit, that costs less then 2000 minai, UNDERPOWERED?

im not very inteligble about roman troops so i might be missing something here.

You forgot the pilum which is an ap-jav. Roman Cohors are surely not underpowered.

[-Stormrage-]

You forgot the pilum which is an ap-jav. Roman Cohors are surely not underpowered.

Right you are.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

The fact that Roman players are not creative and willing to recruit various mercs as complementary pieces is what dooms those cohorts. Not their inherent abilities as units in and of themselves. In this sense I give Vega a good amount of credit. He tried and succeeded at implementing phalangites with his legions and he has shown a willingness to use various other mercenary units. In that sense, he has improved upon how he originally did as Rome and his recent tournament record bears that out.

[Vega]

Yes robin i agree, Rome is weak, but with removing some important mercenaries why make them weaker...

[antisocialmunky]

Cohors are substantially underpowered as more as possible.
Playing mp, legionaries simply do not count.
Roman player could save himself only with his cavalry (at least decent), then not in roman way.

You have elites like Praetorians now. Its not so much that legions are weaker but everything is better so you can't sit in guard mode forever :p

Also ACS used to use phalanx too in really annoying way.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Yes robin i agree, Rome is weak, but with removing some important mercenaries why make them weaker...

I think you are missing my point...

I don't think Rome is weak at all. I think people just rely on their legions to win battles themselves without any support and that is what makes Rome weak.

[vartan]

Rome is going to be "weak" as long as their units are not made to be God-like.

ASM, eastern skirmishers aren't AP.

Consider slingers that cost just as much as archers do, with the same amount of men.

[antisocialmunky]

I think you are missing my point...

I don't think Rome is weak at all. I think people just rely on their legions to win battles themselves without any support and that is what makes Rome weak.

I suppose I should try my hand at post-marian again for unit testing. Post-marian is weak for lack of charge cavalry but I really need to test the jav cav.

[vartan]

I think the Marian-Imperials exclusively use Gallic cav as they're the only lancers.

[The Celtic Viking]

Is it just me, or does it seem a little weird that Dosidataskeli have 6 more armour and 10 more morale than Dubosaverlacica and yet only cost 300 more mnai?

[vartan]

Is it just me, or does it seem a little weird that Dosidataskeli have 6 more armour and 10 more morale than Dubosaverlacica and yet only cost 300 more mnai?

*jaw drops* Really? My my my that's so disturbing.

[Kival]

I should not have played against you, Viking ;-). The Thorakitai Argyraspidai have the same armour as the Dubosaverlacica but 2 morale less, 2 defense points less, 2 attack points less and cost 400 more... While I agree that it is odd I don't think that the costs can only be seen this way though I don't know how they were calculated at first. It's also obviously something different to have this kind of unit as a phalanx or non-phalanx nation etc. - difficult...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

TAB's are 80 men units while the Goildilic and Vasci units are 60, hence the cost difference. But something was seeming a little off with the Dosidatashkeli when I had those two units surrounded by literally 16 of mine and they still refused to rout.

[The Celtic Viking]

Kival, I'm sorry, but I must insist that they are overpowered. Ordmalica charging from the front kills at most 15 of them before routing, and that's if they can envelope. If fighting straight from the front only, they kill 7 if they have no exp or 12 if they do, and that's if they can avoid those javelins. TABs only killed 12 before routing.

They do cost 3266 mnai and come with a 60 + 1 officer number, but they cause fear, are hardy, have two 7 attack ap javelins, a 19 attack spear, a total of 39 defence, of which 23 is armour, 12 is defence skill and 4 is the shield. Due to being disciplined and having 30(!) morale, they never rout either, even, as Robin said, when completely surrounded by a far more numerous enemy. With this in mind, that 3266 price tag is nothing.

They need to be nerfed.

[Kival]

@Robin

Oh, I see.

@Viking

I was only joking ;-). I think not-rooting is not the problem, the solduros do not root, too. But the armour seems to be somewhat overdone. As we don't know if any of this units is historical at all we could just adjust the stats to the stats of the irish guys. They would still be strong but not unbeatable, at least I was able to beat Vikings Dosidatiaskeli ;-).

[The Celtic Viking]

You mean my Dubosaverlacica.

Anyway, I know you better than to take you seriously, so I didn't (). I just know you like them. Though, of course, I wasn't saying that "they can't be routed, so that in and of itself means they're overpowered". I was saying that, "they can't be routed, and that together with everything else, means that they're overpowered". It's a part of the equation, but not the whole of it.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Armor should be two higher than Dubos since they wear greaves, but this will be reflected in higher price.

[Kival]

You mean my Dubosaverlacica.

Yeah, this names are cumbersome...

[-Stormrage-]

ok here is the deal thraikian skirmishers should get either ap javs OR ap melee.\

becuase they are not living up to their title as best skirmishers, their jav attack is the same as an other skirmisher.

[Kival]

This "best skirmisher" thing does not have to be true. The iberian and lusotanian were also very renowned for their skirmishers as were the numidians.

[gamegeek2]

Dosidataskeli have more than just greaves as an advantage IIRC. I think I made sure of that. I probably ought to nerf them, I did stat on them almost every single possible bit of armor. I will likely remove some. 37 Im thinking and a small price reduction.

One question though: is having only 60 men (compared with other elite 80 men) not a big disadvantage? Did i forget to give them 60 men because thats all they should have.

Did I forget to give the Thorakitai Argyraspidai 80 men, because IIRC they have 80 men.

[Kival]

One question though: is having only 60 men (compared with other elite 80 men) not a big disadvantage? Did i forget to give them 60 men because thats all they should have.

They only have 60 men but 60 men which do not die are better than 80 or 100 who die ;-)

Did I forget to give the Thorakitai Argyraspidai 80 men, because IIRC they have 80 men.

Yes, they have, I've overseen that.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Yes oddly enough the TAB's which are 80 men only killed 12 of the 60 men in the Dosidatashkeli unit :(

[-Stormrage-]

Since EB is all about historical accuracy, didnt indian longbow men plant their bows in the ground, to give the bow more force and propell the arrow stronger and farther .

maybe a range boost would be represent this.

[antisocialmunky]

That may not mean much if the bow wasn't that great.