US gubmint shutdown + default + subprime sequel?

[Vladimir]

Real men take it in the Jimmy.

As in your article: Exports are nice but they need buyers. It's time for us to chill out for a while until the baby boomers pass from this life. This is the best course due to our structure and responsibilities.

[Adrian II]

It's time for us to chill out for a while until the baby boomers pass from this life.

Wouldn't you rather wait until Venus is in conjunction to our Ascendant? The energy of Venus in conjunction adds grace to our undoing and stimulates our self-projection.

In other words, what are you on about?

AII

[Strike For The South]

These people are adults, why is this happening?

[Xiahou]

These people are adults, why is this happening?

Because a significant number of them live in a fantasy world where tax hikes in a stagnant economy are a good idea.

[Samurai Waki]

Because a significant number of them live in a fantasy world where tax hikes in a stagnant economy are a good idea.

Just like Lowering Taxes during wartime is a good idea.

[Strike For The South]

Because a significant number of them live in a fantasy world where tax hikes in a stagnant economy are a good idea.

It's a repeal of one particular tax and the closing of loopholes

Or else it will just fall on the back of the middle and working class. Ho hum, rich get richer, poor get poorer

[Subotan]

Because a significant number of them live in a fantasy world where tax hikes in a stagnant economy are a good idea.

The logic behind that is that lower taxes compel firms to invest and take on more workers. This is not strictly accurate. Although it allows firms to take on more workers, it does not compel firms to take on more workers. The reason that unemployment is so high and growth is so low at the minute is because firms in the States were able to lay off huge amounts of workforce whilst experiencing huge productivity gains by forcing the remaining workers to work harder better faster stronger for fewer and longer. These productivity gains have allowed firms to stay in the black as demand has plummeted; indeed, many firms are now sitting on lots of liquidity which they could choose to expand their business with.

But they haven't! This is because demand has not yet expanded enough to compel firms to expand supply to meet that increased demand. Low taxes aren't doing enough to keep demand up (And, as an aside, all the gains in living standards tha Americans should have from lower taxes are offset by pricier healthcare than the rest of the world). Whilst tax hikes might at first glance seem to reduce demand yet further, this is not necessarily the case. The marginal propensity to consume of the super-rich is low; if you're poor and you get a tenner, you're more likely to go out and spend it immediately than a rich person is. Likewise, taking a tenner off a poor person is more likely to affect their consumption than it is the rich person. By taxing the rich (who, as has been said, are often sitting on piles of cash as well as having done very well over the past decade), in order to redistribute to the poor (E.g. studies have shown that food stamps and unemployment benefit are the single most effective means of increasing wealth in the economy, per $ spent by the government) demand can be increased, and the deficit can be brought down.

[Xiahou]

Frankly, it looks like we're already headed towards a double-dip recession. The first quarter growth was just revised down to 0.4%. The second quarter initial numbers are a tepid 1.3% and likely to be revised down later as well. If you think raising taxes is the solution to this problem.... see my earlier post. Higher taxes would further damage the economy and likely result in lower tax revenue. I'm afraid you're going to have to hold off on your redistribution of wealth until we're in better economic times.

Just like Lowering Taxes during wartime is a good idea.

And how does re-arguing this solve anything? Not very "adult", I must say....

[a completely inoffensive name]

Frankly, it looks like we're already headed towards a double-dip recession. The first quarter growth was just revised down to 0.4%. The second quarter initial numbers are a tepid 1.3% and likely to be revised down later as well. If you think raising taxes is the solution to this problem.... see my earlier post. Higher taxes would further damage the economy and likely result in lower tax revenue. I'm afraid you're going to have to hold off on your redistribution of wealth until we're in better economic times.

Except they were not raises on individual tax rates. Obama's proposal had all revenues coming from closing corporate and individual tax loopholes. No rates were raised.

[HopAlongBunny]

Ready for a conspiracy theory?

I thought so. Pull up a chair.

The gov't is going to pull a GM style restructuring. Social Security is actually cash-flow positive as long as the gov't pays interest on the bonds it holds as securities. A "technical default" will necessitate hard decisions; since not paying interest to foreign holders would be catastrophic the gov't will short shrift domestic holders (not all of course). As gov't programs become cash starved due to missing interest payments, the "weak cash sucking programs" will be restructured any way the gov't likes. The burden of adjustment will come to rest where it always ought to. On the poor, elderly, and most needy of the population.

Just my humble opinion ;p

[a completely inoffensive name]

A mature response

Telling the truth is very mature. Little kids fib all the time, not adults, except when it comes to spouses and cops.

A) His characterization of "tax hikes" is completely wrong.
B) He is clearly attacking the Democrats for "living in a fantasy land" when the Republicans are asking for a Constitutional Amendment in order to America to not get downgraded.
C) It comes out of no where to what I saw as a facetious comment from Strike (I don't think he really just called Congress a bunch of adults), so I can only assume it came from partisan frustration.


The American system was designed by the founders to be a place of compromise, it's what allowed the Constitution to be approved in the first place. The Republicans, specifically the Tea Party branch is acting antiamerican by outright refusing to compromise, choosing instead to sabotage the standing and strength of the nation for ideological purity.

[Xiahou]

The American system was designed by the founders to be a place of compromise, it's what allowed the Constitution to be approved in the first place. The Republicans, specifically the Tea Party branch is acting antiamerican by outright refusing to compromise, choosing instead to sabotage the standing and strength of the nation for ideological purity.

Hillary Clinton wants to talk to you.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Hillary Clinton wants to talk to you.

Complete strawman. This isn't a matter of them disagreeing and arguing. Tea Party is refusing to vote for anything. Boehner walks out 3 times. OBama gives a plan with a money ration of 3 cuts to 1 increase in revenue and gets walked out on.

This is playing the "starving the beast" tactic to the utmost extreme. And you need to do better if you want to be in the right.

EDIT: Alright, I gotta stop being an ass.