Who was innocent

[Adrian II]

edit, if one of my fellow rightwingers try to dismiss it as just a madman, feel free to punch him in the face. We all have a lot to discuss, it's the only way forward

[Kralizec]

http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&source...mt3j7kja0Q6Pmw

It must have passed, as non-palilovers aren't allowed

*sigh*

http://www.haaretz.com/news/norway-u...boycott-1.4299

This was the failed attempt to get a boycot that I referred to earlier. The board didn't even debate the issue; the motion was scrapped beforehand.

[Fragony]

So can you do that with Israel? They are much more efficient of killing children after all...

Sure, and if they thought in the same way as Breivik and Islamists there wouldn't be a single one alive. Not that much of a difference to you?

Hamas also has a manifesto, I suggest you read it. Don't take this the wrong way as I certainly don't mean it as it could look, but maybe it's good that Norway realises it isn't an Island.

[CBR]

Possibly because the term youth is generally considered under 18 and younger (it can be under 25 too). So there was a perception that this was political indoctrination of under 18s/

Yeah I can see the definitions are different from place to place and even a bit blurred to begin with.

It might be different from one organisation to another but I know in the Danish Social Democratic youth the limit is 30 years old. But that would perhaps be for leaders only as more regular members might either have quit politics or moved to either a student organisation or simply become an active member in a party.

[Fragony]

*sigh*

http://www.haaretz.com/news/norway-u...boycott-1.4299

This was the failed attempt to get a boycot that I referred to earlier. The board didn't even debate the issue; the motion was scrapped beforehand.

That's odd, I guess it was just decided then, figures.

google is your friend

[CBR]

edit, if one of my fellow rightwingers try to dismiss it as just a madman, feel free to punch him in the face. We all have a lot to discuss, it's the only way forward

FWIW I'm not a fellow rightwinger but I think ABB was more madman than rightwinger. One single guy is not a trend and as long as there is no trend one should be careful about pointing fingers.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Love has been a mantra. I haven't heard forgiveness mentioned once.Christian? I'd go for "hippie lovefest 2011".As for the primary purpose of a democratic party:

The pitch is very protestant, very calm and rational, whilst also very emotive. You don't have to agree but you might consider that I know what I'm talking about here.

It's the same in Britland too. I'll say it in a different way, maybe you'll get what I'm trying to say:The primary purpose of any political party in a democratic state is to uphold democracy.Quite obviously, if we lose a generation, then we will lose our democracy in 30 years or so. So, in order to save and continue our democratic society, we must engage each new generation in democracy. Thus, the primary purpose of our political parties is to engage the youth.

No, I understood the first time, I just disagree, political parties are about common interest and not democracy.

[Fragony]

FWIW I'm not a fellow rightwinger but I think ABB was more madman than rightwinger. One single guy is not a trend and as long as there is no trend one should be careful about pointing fingers.

This guy was not a madman but an extremist, can you deny it opened up some gaps, can't discuss about him without discussing what he said.

[Viking]

Sure, and if they thought in the same way as Breivik and Islamists there wouldn't be a single one alive. Not that much of a difference to you?

Hamas also has a manifesto, I suggest you read it. Don't take this the wrong way as I certainly don't mean it as it could look, but maybe it's good that Norway realises it isn't an Island.

They don't support Fatah/Hamas in general, but the Palestinian people. Why whould anyone want to support Hamas, it is an Islamist organisation.

[Fragony]

They don't support Fatah/Hamas in general, but the Palestinian people. Why whould anyone want to support Hamas, it is an Islamist organisation.

Good question that, cant answer it I am very bad at leftist logic

[CBR]

This guy was not a madman but an extremist, can you deny it opened up some gaps, can't discuss about him without discussing what he said.

I have not read his manifest but have seen a few quotes from it: he might have shared some ideas with the rightwing, but he also seem to live in his own world and have some pretty weird ideas not many on the rightwing would agree with IMO.

Do people consider Lee Harvey Oswald a leftwing/communist terrorist or assassin or simply a deranged person? Should anyone who dislikes capitalism feel guilty about Rote Armee Fraktion?

I don't know what you mean by "rightwing" but unless you can find a group that advocate for what ABB is rambling about as well as his actions, then he is still just one single madman. Fascists and Nazis come closest I guess?

[Fragony]

I come pretty close really. If you would be really mean you would remind me of this https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...l-for-violence

[Kralizec]

Sure, and if they thought in the same way as Breivik and Islamists there wouldn't be a single one alive. Not that much of a difference to you?

Hamas also has a manifesto, I suggest you read it. Don't take this the wrong way as I certainly don't mean it as it could look, but maybe it's good that Norway realises it isn't an Island.

The charter of the Likud party rejects Palestinian self-rule. They're allowed to live, but never to establish a sovereign state - ever.

Your point?

[CBR]

I come pretty close really. If you would be really mean you would remind me of this https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...l-for-violence

Maybe the Fragony on Org is just the official and nice side of Fragony, while the inner ABB in you is coming out on the "Tall blond Dutch who hates m00slims" forum, that I don't know of course.

But based on what you are writing here then arming yourself and thinking in terms of vigilantism might be considered extreme but IMO is still a far cry from ABB.

[Fragony]

Maybe the Fragony on Org is just the official and nice side of Fragony, while the inner ABB in you is coming out on the "Tall blond Dutch who hates m00slims" forum, that I don't know of course.

But based on what you are writing here then arming yourself and thinking in terms of vigilantism might be considered extreme but IMO is still a far cry from ABB.

Of course. If you want to dive into it, my e-mail is my actual name

Just trying to say that there's a reason there is a populist right.

[Centurion1]

This guy was not a madman but an extremist, can you deny it opened up some gaps, can't discuss about him without discussing what he said.

H most certainly is a madman. I do not need to be a psychiatrist to see that.

[CBR]

Just trying to say that there's a reason there is a populist right.

Yes indeed and what I'm trying to say is that the populist right should not feel guilty about the actions of ABB. Unless they advocate actual violence and fascism.

Nor is ABB a natural result of multiculturalism as some on the rightwing is declaring.

I might as well say it was a natural result of having the internets because ABB could communicate and obtain info in ways that was practically impossible a few decades ago. Or why not say it is the natural result of the industrialisation because without fertilizer and automatic weapons ABB could not have done much damage.

That of course does not mean we shouldn't try to figure out what went wrong up in his head.

[Fragony]

I don't feel guilty, hoping something good will come out of this

'Nor is ABB a natural result of multiculturalism as some on the rightwing is declaring.'

Not such a wild claim, of course it is. And of the completely politically autistic EU as well

[HoreTore]

No, I understood the first time, I just disagree, political parties are about common interest and not democracy.

But what is most important to our political parties?

Is job creation most important to Labour?
Are lower taxes most important to the conservatives?
Is enviromentalism most important to the greens?

I'd say no; what is most important to all of them is to uphold democracy.


Though this, of course, does not apply to our anti-democratic parties, for obvious reasons. But I don't see why anyone should bother with them...

[HoreTore]

They don't support Fatah/Hamas in general, but the Palestinian people. Why whould anyone want to support Hamas, it is an Islamist organisation.

This is, of course, disregarding the fact that Labour doesn't support neither Hamas or Fatah. For as long as Gahr Støre is in control of the foreign policy, they will forever support Dialogue, Dialogue and Dialogue.

That's what you get when you send people of to schools in France, I guess...

[drone]

But what is most important to our political parties?

I don't think you really want to know the answer to this question.

[HoreTore]

I don't think you really want to know the answer to this question.

I already know it.

[drone]

what is most important to all of them is to uphold democracy.

This is not it.

[HoreTore]

This is not it.

I call populist hatred of politicians.

Recent event makes this an unbreakable trumf-card.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

But what is most important to our political parties?

Is job creation most important to Labour?
Are lower taxes most important to the conservatives?
Is enviromentalism most important to the greens?

I'd say no; what is most important to all of them is to uphold democracy.


Though this, of course, does not apply to our anti-democratic parties, for obvious reasons. But I don't see why anyone should bother with them...

No, I dissagree. Political parties exist in non-democratic systems, even "absolute" monarchies. It is only because you live in a democratically governed Constitutional Monarchy that you see democracy as important to political parties, but the mere fact that it is a common concern for Norwegian politicians makes it a non-partisan belief, and therefore of no concern to political parties at all.

It is a concern for Norwegians and Noway's society, but not for its individual political parties.

As I said, political parties exist to advance an agenda, democracy is not on anyone's agenda to advance in Norway.

[drone]

What is most important to political parties is to get in power and maintain this power for as long as possible. In democracies, this means getting elected, but this is just a means to the end.

There is a difference between hatred and well justified mistrust.

[Kralizec]

I'd have to agree - systems of elected representation are competitive and thus count on parties wanting to maximise their amount of voters, i.e. looking out for their own interest. Put cynically, elections are merely an opportunity to exchange one ruling party for another; it's in the parties' interests to do a good job, or at least appear to be doing a good job at governing.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that every politician secretly dreams of a one-party state, though.

[HoreTore]

No, I dissagree. Political parties exist in non-democratic systems, even "absolute" monarchies.

Note how I specified political parties "in a democratic state".

As I said, political parties exist to advance an agenda, democracy is not on anyone's agenda to advance in Norway.

The youth parties are given their assignments with the specific goal of upholding and ensuring the continuance of the democracy.

Spreading propaganda regarding the party you represent yourself is considered a secondary goal. "Get 'em voting" is the motto.


Hence why I have helped deliver party propaganda for several parties over the years, while at the same time I have only been affiliated with one party(socialist left). Heck, in 2005 I was driving around with propaganda from both the communist party and the centre party, delivering both at the same time...

[drone]

Of course that's what the parties will tell the idealistic youth. "Controlling the country for our own interests" doesn't fly as well.

[HoreTore]

Of course that's what the parties will tell the idealistic youth. "Controlling the country for our own interests" doesn't fly as well.

http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/28379...n_foil_hat.jpg