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Saba get elephants. There is no unit in the Casse roster that can win a battle like elephants can.
That said, elephants should get a minor boost to hp if they havn't already. Maybe +1. Makes little sense that ellies get only one more hp than gaesatae.
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Elephants cannot win you a battle and a re a liablity. Simply too many faction have charger cavalry, heck even prodromoi can kill elephants, so can a lowly akontisai unit.
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[21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting
Problem is elephants still cost too much. A unit of elephants shouldn't cost too much more than a unit of cataphracts considering there are more ways to counter them than catas. Maybe 6500 for a unit of elephants?
Btw, this is based solely on balance, not on historical accuracy.
From Frontline for fixing siege towers of death
x30 From mikepettytw for showing how to edit in game text.
From Brennus for wit.
EB Online Founder | Website
Former Projects:
- Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack
- Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
- EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
- Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)
Huh? In vanilla EB, Casse gets low morale but so many eagles to showcase their different fighting style of having heroes lead the tribes into war. When you gave general units eagles, you decreased this point, and if you start giving them left, right and centre, you remove this distinguishment altogether. However, it's even worse, because you're only removing the good part of this distinguishment (the eagles), but keeping the bad part of it (low morale for non-heroic units).
In other words, my argument is not simply "doing this would make Casse irrelevant", which is pretty much true, but also that it would remove a historical point from the Casse faction. In other words, if we agreed that not giving elites an eagle would be a compromise, then all we'd have to agree with would be that either way would be a compromise. If that's the case, then I'd go with the compromise that I see as more important, both from a historical as well as a gameplay perspective. I would compromise in the way that kept Casse floating... but I genuinely don't think that it's really a compromise.
Nonsense. Elephants is what won Mr Fred's tournament as Saba.
I too agree with this.
Last edited by The Celtic Viking; 08-28-2011 at 15:16.
Did anyone try charging Prodromoi or any charger cav into elephants last year ? I think not, people werent that brave last year, and saying elephants won him the tournament is over simplifying it.
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[21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting
Ideally we would have armies with four elephants on large, eight on huge.
Europa Barbarorum: Novus Ordo Mundi - Mod Leader Europa Barbarorum - Team Member
"To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace." -CalgacusOriginally Posted by skullheadhq
It annoys me when you are posting on the forum yet cant come on hamachi :(
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[21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting
Triple post ftw, he might not admit it, but there was much more to his game than elephants.
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[21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting
Yes no way to represent the fact that cavalry would not even go near elephants if the horses were unaccustomed to the sights, sounds, and smells of the beasts. The fair compromise is the unit size as is.
A side note: why do we pay more for Indian Elephants which have fewer elephants per unit than the African ones? Indian Elephants were in all likelihood, the easiest to train, as experienced mahouts would be common in India. And don't tell me that we pay so much more for two men on their backs that throw a few javelins or shoot a few arrows. The Ptolemies had considerably more trouble getting access to their African elephants than the Seleucids did trying to get Indians, yet their elephant units have more beasts and cost substantially less.
From Frontline for fixing siege towers of death
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From Brennus for wit.
Who are you to speak on his behalf? Do you always do this?
Basically. Cavalry are not supposed to come near. The engine fails, once again.
You'll need to ask the EB team about that.A side note: why do we pay more for Indian Elephants which have fewer elephants per unit than the African ones? Indian Elephants were in all likelihood, the easiest to train, as experienced mahouts would be common in India. And don't tell me that we pay so much more for two men on their backs that throw a few javelins or shoot a few arrows. The Ptolemies had considerably more trouble getting access to their African elephants than the Seleucids did trying to get Indians, yet their elephant units have more beasts and cost substantially less.
EB Online Founder | Website
Former Projects:
- Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack
- Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
- EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
- Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)
Europa Barbarorum: Novus Ordo Mundi - Mod Leader Europa Barbarorum - Team Member
"To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace." -CalgacusOriginally Posted by skullheadhq
Who are you to prevent me from saying that he was better than you people think he was?
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[21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting
What are you talking about? No one here has said a word, or even implied anything, about Mr Fred's skill. All we're saying is that the elephants are what won him that tournament. It shouldn't be such a controversial thing to say when by his own words he based his whole bloody tactic on those ellies! His army composition was made up of one elephant and 19 units to support it. Of course the elephants were instrumental to his success, and there's no reasonable way to deny that.
True, but just because he who brought it up doesn't favour it himself doesn't mean that I can't give my reasons why I am against it, does it?Originally Posted by vartan
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Last edited by The Celtic Viking; 08-28-2011 at 18:46.
Last edited by Ludens; 08-29-2011 at 18:41. Reason: merged posts
EB Online Founder | Website
Former Projects:
- Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack
- Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
- EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
- Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)
This discussion is getting too heated. Everybody mind the tone, please.
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That's why I'm against giving elites eagles. Just cause one brings a suggestion up doesn't mean one is in favour of it.
It's not. You clearly haven't talked to him. It's the words that came out of his mouth.
Why? Who said you need to make the numbers proportionally realistic?
Last edited by Ludens; 08-29-2011 at 18:39. Reason: merged posts
EB Online Founder | Website
Former Projects:
- Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack
- Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
- EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
- Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)
Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.
"Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009
EB Online Founder | Website
Former Projects:
- Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack
- Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
- EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
- Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)
Again, from a historical standpoint, it would make no sense. Either way falxmen had to be de-powered. If anybody recalls, we had to place a restriction on Bastarnae Falxmen because they were so good; Drapanai were let slide because they were the selling-point of the Getai, as the Getai never won archer wars at the time and thus the Drapanai got slaughtered. Now, the Getai have one of the cheapest and most effective low tier archer units in the game.
Last edited by gamegeek2; 08-29-2011 at 00:01.
Europa Barbarorum: Novus Ordo Mundi - Mod Leader Europa Barbarorum - Team Member
"To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace." -CalgacusOriginally Posted by skullheadhq
Can't really get away with cheap units. You need to reconsider for reasons of gameplay uniqueness as a faction. And you can remove the possibility of restrictions by using pricing in combination of stats, or to spell it out, not over-the-top powerful and/or more expensive.
EB Online Founder | Website
Former Projects:
- Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack
- Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
- EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
- Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)
Does that then make all the other ele factions which are already top contenders overpowered?
EB Online Founder | Website
Former Projects:
- Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack
- Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
- EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
- Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)
From Frontline for fixing siege towers of death
x30 From mikepettytw for showing how to edit in game text.
From Brennus for wit.
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