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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

    About everytime cataphracts have gotten into prolonged melee with infantry, its gone not very well. Aurelian, during the last major battle against the Alamanni charged a mix formation of horse and infantry with his Cataphracts and heavy horse which was repulsed with relatively high casualties as the horses were killed from beneath the cataphracts. They then routed and crashed into his right flank which only managed to be reformed due to the discipline of his troops.

    Additionally the Sassanids never really managed to successfully invade against Romans because the Romans were reliably able to defeat heavy horse (unless you are a fat rich guy) and the Romans were only usually defeated on campaign by the inability to hold Armenia and Mesopotamia because they had to spread themselves so thin in the cases of Anthony and Trajan.

    Funny enough Aurelian made the members of the cataphract units that did not rally back to him dress up as women after he won the battle.
    Last edited by antisocialmunky; 09-02-2011 at 16:06.
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    EB:NOM Triumvir Member gamegeek2's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky View Post
    About everytime cataphracts have gotten into prolonged melee with infantry, its gone not very well. Aurelian, during the last major battle against the Alamanni charged a mix formation of horse and infantry with his Cataphracts and heavy horse which was repulsed with relatively high casualties as the horses were killed from beneath the cataphracts. They then routed and crashed into his right flank which only managed to be reformed due to the discipline of his troops.

    Funny enough Aurelian made the members of the cataphract units that did not rally back to him dress up as women after he won the battle.
    This is correct. Cataphracts seem to have been resisted by prepared infantry very well, as they are now. Infantry being flanked or hit in the rear are not prepared.

    They do however seem to have crushed other cavalry most of the time assuming the other cavalry were unsupported, such as at Panion and at Magnesia, where the Seleucid cataphract charge broke the Roman left, but then pursued the Romans back to their camp.

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
    Additionally the Sassanids never really managed to successfully invade against Romans because the Romans were reliably able to defeat heavy horse (unless you are a fat rich guy) and the Romans were only usually defeated on campaign by the inability to hold Armenia and Mesopotamia because they had to spread themselves so thin in the cases of Anthony and Trajan.
    Correction: the Parthians did not succeed at invading against romans. The Sasssanids, on the other hand, conquered large swaths of territory, at one point overrunning the entire Levant, Egypt, and much of Anatolia.
    Last edited by gamegeek2; 09-02-2011 at 16:14.
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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

    That's because Khosrau I reformed the cavalry into lighter heavy lancer/horse archer hybrids and deemphasized the cataphracts.

    Also I want one of what the Sassanid Knight is shooting: http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-conte...century-AD.jpg

    http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/news/nab...ent-world-war/
    Last edited by antisocialmunky; 09-02-2011 at 16:37.
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    EB:NOM Triumvir Member gamegeek2's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky View Post
    That's because Khosrau I reformed the cavalry into light heavy lancer/horse archer hybrids and deemphasized the cataphracts.
    Correct; later Sassanid armies were optimized for campaigning. He probably drew more of the Dhiqans into service to do so. Regardless, EBO armies seem to not greatly emphasize cataphracts as the main shock too, either, with plenty of hybrids employed where possible, and supporting lighter cavalry in wide use; at least that's the direction things seem to be heading in, especially with Hayasdan and Parthia, and I have little doubt that once I wrap up the Seleucids they will be greatly using the Medians as well.
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    Default Re: 3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by gamegeek2 View Post
    This is correct. Cataphracts seem to have been resisted by prepared infantry very well, as they are now. Infantry being flanked or hit in the rear are not prepared.

    They do however seem to have crushed other cavalry most of the time assuming the other cavalry were unsupported, such as at Panion and at Magnesia, where the Seleucid cataphract charge broke the Roman left, but then pursued the Romans back to their camp.
    I was informed that there is at least one cavalry unit from the "West" that defeats cataphracts: Sacred Band of Carthage.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamegeek2 View Post
    EBO armies seem to not greatly emphasize cataphracts as the main shock too, either, with plenty of hybrids employed where possible, and supporting lighter cavalry in wide use; at least that's the direction things seem to be heading in, especially with Hayasdan and Parthia, and I have little doubt that once I wrap up the Seleucids they will be greatly using the Medians as well.
    RTW unfortunately takes the "shock" out of "shock cavalry" when it comes to medium and light cavalry. They are instead, at the moment, best used to add bulk in the melee in cav vs cav.
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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

    While it wasn't a cavalry tactic, there was an infantry tactic that was basically creating an infantry wedge with the heavily armored elite troops on the outside and less armored infantry on the inside to increase mass.
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    Unbowed Unbent Unbroken Member Lazy O's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

    Lanceari and ambakaro epones are the other "western" cavalry which beat cataphracts.


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    Unbowed Unbent Unbroken Member Lazy O's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

    And vartan, why does the site say SAC archer limit is 8?


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    [21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
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    Involuntary Gaesatae Member The Celtic Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

    Not quite the right place to ask that.
    Last edited by The Celtic Viking; 09-02-2011 at 19:24.

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