[EB MP]3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I think it went something like this, though I forgot exact limits.

No limit for under (price)1000

Max 8 same of 1000-1500

Max 6 Same of 1000-2000

Max 4 same of 2000-2500

Max 2 same of 2500+

This rule hurts the Arverni too much. The only advantage they have over Aedui is having a solid line composed of Arjos (which are phenomenal line troops) which cost 2000+. If we limit them to 4, that is not enough to compose a line of.

[Lazy O]

Make them cheaper :P

[-Stormrage-]

Your going about this the wrong way. You have to get the pricing of units just right so that the spammage of elite units would make the player lose money for other parts of his army. The Stats should also be just right that even if he spammed elites he would have the Rock but, the other army might have the Paper and cut the elites to bits. Get what i mean.

The EDu should be rightly Statted and perfectly priced, If that happens then the smart player will know it is not in his faovr to spam just cavalry or just infantry for example, becuase he will then have only 1 of 3. While the army which is baalnced in other words has all 3 rock paper and scissory will beat his rock spam or scissors spam.

You can just ignore all my advice and continue doing whatever your doing ofcourse .

Vartan, when lances are "couched" at 30 charge distance, this distance is so close that it will lead to cav sometimes not couching in time, this is your problem. Just listen to strormage again like u did with the 60 man elites, and give cav 50 charge distance.

Why are you people so stubborn.

[The Celtic Viking]

Your going about this the wrong way. You have to get the pricing of units just right so that the spammage of elite units would make the player lose money for other parts of his army. The Stats should also be just right that even if he spammed elites he would have the Rock but, the other army might have the Paper and cut the elites to bits. Get what i mean.

Yes, you want to play rock, paper, scissors. We get it, but you won't. My advice to you is to get a friend: as long as neither of you is a thief, then you should already have all that you need, and you can stop buggering us about it.

[vartan]

Vartan, when lances are "couched" at 30 charge distance, this distance is so close that it will lead to cav sometimes not couching in time, this is your problem. Just listen to strormage again like u did with the 60 man elites, and give cav 50 charge distance.

It favors fast, light lancers too much. Heavy cavalry have it hard as is.

And I don't see why I can't bring 6 Grivpanvar if I want to in a tournament. It's my loss.

[-Stormrage-]

Why are you people so stubborn.

---

To be very clear charge distance effects when cav lower their lances, i am asking that instead of having cav lower lances at the last minute they should lower lances earlier.
Instead of 30 charge distance , we increase it to 40-50. (according to cav type).

i hope im being clear.

[vartan]

---

To be very clear charge distance effects when cav lower their lances, i am asking that instead of having cav lower lances at the last minute they should lower lances earlier.
Instead of 30 charge distance , we increase it to 40-50. (according to cav type).

i hope im being clear.

Don't you understand that it means I'm going to have to move my exhausted heavy cavalry even farther away from the enemy before I can charge properly again? Major ruin for the already difficult maneuvering with the heavy cavalry.

[gamegeek2]

This rule hurts the Arverni too much. The only advantage they have over Aedui is having a solid line composed of Arjos (which are phenomenal line troops) which cost 2000+. If we limit them to 4, that is not enough to compose a line of.

Chevroned Bataroas are excellent; 1800 for 100 11-attack long-swordsmen with a big shield, 21 defense, 13 morale. Also would you expect historical Arverni to compose their entire line of nobility? And do recall you have Neitos as well.

Frankly I see too many mailed troops in Celtic armies, with cheap Iaosatae making up for expensive infantry.

There is no "all three" stormrage. There are at least six different basic troop types in EB: Infantry Skirmishers, Missile Inf, Melee/Heavy Inf, Horse Archers, JavCav, and Lancers/Heavy Cav. Try playing rock-paper-scissors with that.

[vartan]

Hi guys. Many have asked why Bosphorans are the best archers. gamegeek2 is who I went to and this is the response he gave, which I believe perfectly answers the question:

Of course they cost more than cretans, they have better armor and better weapons, but equal bow skill (bosporans use lighter arrows though) and tier. They defeat all other archers easily.

EDIT: Storm check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-pa...s-lizard-Spock

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Chevroned Bataroas are excellent; 1800 for 100 11-attack long-swordsmen with a big shield, 21 defense, 13 morale. Also would you expect historical Arverni to compose their entire line of nobility? And do recall you have Neitos as well.

Frankly I see too many mailed troops in Celtic armies, with cheap Iaosatae making up for expensive infantry.

I'm not arguing for both Aedui and Arverni, I'm arguing solely for Arverni. The only difference between the two is Arjos/Carnutes with Carnutes obviously being the more useful unit. If we are limited in the use of Arjos, it makes little sense to pick them as the Aedui will simply be superior with the druidic chants.

[gamegeek2]

I'm not arguing for both Aedui and Arverni, I'm arguing solely for Arverni. The only difference between the two is Arjos/Carnutes with Carnutes obviously being the more useful unit. If we are limited in the use of Arjos, it makes little sense to pick them as the Aedui will simply be superior with the druidic chants.

I would counter with the following: As Arverni you get 4 more mailed line infantry. Carnutes are more expensive and less effective as general-purpose troopers, thus only one or two are usually brought. Thus out of their unique advantage, the Arverni received 4 troops, while the Aedui received one or two.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, pedites have no become just another generic AP infantry and now Hoplites are so ridiculous in charging, that it is hilarious.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I would counter with the following: As Arverni you get 4 more mailed line infantry. Carnutes are more expensive and less effective as general-purpose troopers, thus only one or two are usually brought. Thus out of their unique advantage, the Arverni received 4 troops, while the Aedui received one or two.

Good point, I didn't think about the limit being applied to Neitos as well. Duh.

[antisocialmunky]

Camillian Triari are now officially the best unit Rome has.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Yeah but I mentioned the good stamina for them and not Polybian Triarii and he said that was a mistake. He may have meant for the Polybians to have good stamina and not the Camillans who are more heavily armored.

[gamegeek2]

Yeah but I mentioned the good stamina for them and not Polybian Triarii and he said that was a mistake. He may have meant for the Polybians to have good stamina and not the Camillans who are more heavily armored.

Both should have good stamina. And those Camillan triarii need to have their cost reduction remove, fo sho, while the Polybians may well keep it.

Wait, they are ridiculous at charging? Hmm that giant, heavy shield they have might make some sense out of that, but please describe this "ridiculous charge" you speak of.

[antisocialmunky]

If you find a corner or an unguarded 'seam' between units, you can order your Hoplites to attack it and then it'll expand and wedge it open. If you stack hoplites on top of each other then they can basically punch a hole through a weakly guarded section of enemy line. You could always do that but since you made the pedites have a not stupid formation, the best unit to pull off the trick with are Massilians and camillian Triari... For Rome anyway.

[gamegeek2]

If you find a corner or an unguarded 'seam' between units, you can order your Hoplites to attack it and then it'll expand and wedge it open. If you stack hoplites on top of each other then they can basically punch a hole through a weakly guarded section of enemy line. You could always do that but since you made the pedites have a not stupid formation, the best unit to pull off the trick with are Massilians and camillian Triari... For Rome anyway.

How many times do I have to say this, the Massilians' stats aren't done yet!

Anyways it's about time someone put hoplites to good use. Then again, it's you ASM...what can I expect!

[Lazy O]

GG2/Vartan Please put the rules we are supposed to be using on the first post .

[vartan]

GG2/Vartan Please put the rules we are supposed to be using on the first post .

Just came back from exam. This is gg2's thread so he'll take care of that. I'll fix the site you can clearly tell what we're doing at the moment, where we're at with 3.0.

[Vega]

Just came back from exam. This is gg2's thread so he'll take care of that. I'll fix the site you can clearly tell what we're doing at the moment, where we're at with 3.0.

hey vartan i could like that you guys keep old rules and only change to be 10 merc for marian era nad 10 for carthage, all other rules looks very balanced, also please if you fixing site update and factional list, just to make clear are capadocian cav heavy or light and are accensi and samitici milities for both polybian and camilian era maybe i missed somthing but well :)

[vartan]

The site has been updated. Please read the news post on the homepage for more information.

hey vartan i could like that you guys keep old rules and only change to be 10 merc for marian era nad 10 for carthage, all other rules looks very balanced, also please if you fixing site update and factional list, just to make clear are capadocian cav heavy or light and are accensi and samitici milities for both polybian and camilian era maybe i missed somthing but well :)

Check the new rules. Mercs are limited to 6. Marian onward get 8. Carthage down to 14 (this rule is a formality, Carthage is by definition merc-based, whether or not we call them factional units). Sauromatae get a hybrid (compromise) of 10 mercs, between the old SAC and CAC merc limits that were exclusive to the Sarmatians, while still maintaining their 4 Greek and 4 Germanic limits. How are Samnites even recruitable for Polybians? That's the wrong era. Bringing them would violate the rule: "SPQR (Rome) must pick one era from which to choose its factional units." Accensi are indeed Republican, so I presume they should be factional for Polybian. Someone correct me if this is a mistake. Cappadocians are non-heavy cavalry in our old system. Our new system does not differentiate between heavy and non-heavy cavalry as there are no rules yet that pertain to the "heaviness" of cavalry. If such a rule or rules arise, I will make sure to update the DHCS (Determining Heavy Cavalry Status) document in order to accommodate for that.

[TheShakAttack]

The site has been updated. Please read the news post on the homepage for more information.



Check the new rules. Mercs are limited to 6. Marian onward get 8. Carthage down to 14 (this rule is a formality, Carthage is by definition merc-based, whether or not we call them factional units). Sauromatae get a hybrid (compromise) of 10 mercs, between the old SAC and CAC merc limits that were exclusive to the Sarmatians, while still maintaining their 4 Greek and 4 Germanic limits. How are Samnites even recruitable for Polybians? That's the wrong era. Bringing them would violate the rule: "SPQR (Rome) must pick one era from which to choose its factional units." Accensi are indeed Republican, so I presume they should be factional for Polybian. Someone correct me if this is a mistake. Cappadocians are non-heavy cavalry in our old system. Our new system does not differentiate between heavy and non-heavy cavalry as there are no rules yet that pertain to the "heaviness" of cavalry. If such a rule or rules arise, I will make sure to update the DHCS (Determining Heavy Cavalry Status) document in order to accommodate for that.

Why shouldn't Polybian have access to Samnites?

[vartan]

Why shouldn't Polybian have access to Samnites?

Hmm. Not sure. I should ask a Romanist. EB has them placed in the Camillans. So I'm guessing Samnites actually show up in Polybians, but guess what: they're showing up as Principes, Hastati, and so on! Get it? This was after they were integrated hmm?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Hmm. Not sure. I should ask a Romanist. EB has them placed in the Camillans. So I'm guessing Samnites actually show up in Polybians, but guess what: they're showing up as Principes, Hastati, and so on! Get it? This was after they were integrated hmm?

Samnites weren't integrated into Roman society all too well. Hence their role in the Social War 200 years into our timeframe.

In campaign at least, the Samnite heavy infantry are only recruitable during the Camillan era. However, the Samnite spearmen are considered allies(its in the unit name), like the Pedites and Equites Extraordinarii, and I consider them factional for both eras as they are recruitable in campaign as such. I use them in my Polybian armies so someone correct me if I am wrong.

[TheShakAttack]

Samnites weren't integrated into Roman society all too well. Hence their role in the Social War 200 years into our timeframe.

In campaign at least, the Samnite heavy infantry are only recruitable during the Camillan era. However, the Samnite spearmen are considered allies(its in the unit name), like the Pedites and Equites Extraordinarii, and I consider them factional for both eras as they are recruitable in campaign as such. I use them in my Polybian armies so someone correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah, exactly. It was AFTER last social war that they were given roman citizenship EDIT: (and therefore integrated into hastatii, principes etc).

If Samnite Spearmen appear, surely milites should as well. Having said that, their power was considerably eroded by the "Polybian" era, this may have been the reason why the EB team chose to implement in this manner, though the inconsistency is still troubling. Or it might just be an oversight on their part?

[vartan]

Yeah, exactly. It was AFTER last social war that they were given roman citizenship EDIT: (and therefore integrated into hastatii, principes etc).

If Samnite Spearmen appear, surely milites should as well. Having said that, their power was considerably eroded by the "Polybian" era, this may have been the reason why the EB team chose to implement in this manner, though the inconsistency is still troubling. Or it might just be an oversight on their part?

LOL not really. We would need to create a new unit representing the Polybian era Samnite soldier. But we can't if there's no unit space left. It's pragmatism, not inconsistency. In fact, there is no reasonable way of representing the waxing and waning of a unit's power throughout history. Stats remain constant unfortunately.

[antisocialmunky]

Model sharing issues would be annoying. You may be able to add milites to the Rome Roster if you wanted as a merc unit.

[TheShakAttack]

I meant the samnite's power eroded as a group, not as a unit/fighters. They still fought ferociously against the romans in the last social war (which was post marian). I dont think they should be made weaker as a unit if you were considering making them factional.

If pedites extraordinarii are the "best" of the allied infantry, it stands to reason that the "others" who didn't qualify for extraordinarii service still served in the legions, and presumably, a not insignificant chunk would be samnite.

I do however note that they could be added as a merc unit- though I am still not sure why they would need to be incorporated like this. BUT the point ASM made is a fair one. 8 merc limit is more than flexible enough to incorporate them should anyone want to (I will try to contact the EB team to ask why they did not include Samnites in Polybian).

[antisocialmunky]

Just edit the edu to give Romans the milites, take them both in a custom game and see if the game explodes.