[EB MP]3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

[Vega]

Im posting again bcz i forgot to mention bactrian and saka catas as well :D they should keep fear wanna see your opinion about helenistics :D

[Arjos]

I ask what's scary about any cataphract?
People were afraid of their "heavier" charge, but what's scary of an oven-man?

Can't they get "inspire" instead and another stat tweak?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I agree, cataphracts don't need the fear effect and I'd prefer to have it removed.

[vartan]

How about we stop using the fear effect altogether. It is a great effect for an arcade game, but I presume as we are aiming for historicity we might want to keep such a funny game mechanic out of the picture altogether. Right? =) [bring it on guys!]

[TheShakAttack]

Ok. I have to defend cata fear here. To put things in perspective, let's examine other units which have the fear effect. The two most absurd ones are chariots and uriodusios. Now, if I were a soldier, I'd be a lot more weary of oven-men crashing into my flank than seeing naked spearmen or outdated machinery like chariots. There would certainly be a psychological effect knowing that these guys who are crazy-armored on horses waiting to smash into somewhere. Certainly, fear would be greater seeing them and knowing they wait (even if behind enemy lines) moreso than seeing naked dudes or chariots standing behind the enemy line. Let's not forget that these bad boys were riding Nisean mounts, which were considerably larger and more powerful than most horses way back when.

All I'm saying is...compare it to some other units which have fear already.

@Vartan- I think that is a valid proposal. If you remove fear from whichever units have it, there would be no problems of inconsistency. Maybe let elephants keep them.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

How about we stop using the fear effect altogether. It is a great effect for an arcade game, but I presume as we are aiming for historicity we might want to keep such a funny game mechanic out of the picture altogether. Right? =) [bring it on guys!]

Ok, I think this is a misguided attempt to do away with an imperfect game mechanic. We are slowly coming to a balance with EB Online, that is, making the majority of factions playable in multiplayer. Yes, there are clearly stronger and weaker factions, but nearly every faction is playable in its current state (Saba and Sweboz excluded though Sweboz somewhat less so). However, once the Eastern Hellenistic factions were completed, what do we see in nearly every battle being fought? Thats right, its almost always a mix of Baktria, AS, Ptolies, Makedonia, Epeiros, and KH being played with our Rome fanatics putting in their two cents as well. Lazy plays Carthage and I'd say there are two or three players who actively use the so-called barbarian factions of the west. Removing the fear effect from units like Gaesatae or Uridusios makes the latter useless and the former not very impressive anymore. Factions like the Casse, god bless them, rely almost soley on the fear effect and getting quick chain routs started or else they will be shot to pieces by an opposing army composed of javelin armed troops and archers waiting it out in guard mode.

In fact, guard mode is the main reason that I would stress that fear must be kept intact. Guard mode encourages camping and forming nice little lines of men for your opponent to dash his soldiers on, like waves on a rocky beach. It does not encourage being proactive or creative in your strategies. Since there are very few units that can win head on against any sort of medium-heavy infantry in guard mode, the only way around this, especially for many barbarians without great cavalry, is to create a localized fear effect which will help maybe break one of those guard moded units and disrupt the tidy lines.

And I will conclude by saying that the fear effect must be removed from cataphracts. (clever Cato reference :p)

[TheShakAttack]

Haha. Your Cato the Elder reference is appreciated :P

As I understand it, your argument is gameplay based rather than historically/logically based.

I disagree with your argument. The way fear is important to making Western barbs useful, so too is fear needed for Parthia and Hayasdan. Parthia and Hai do not have good effective armies once cata fear gets taken away. Western barbs have access to high morale, relatively inexepensive, high quality infantry coupled with very workable cavalry. P + H on the other hand have terrible infantry (Armenian nobles being the exception, but they are only 70 men and are expensive). Fear is necessary to complement the really poor infantry.

With regards to Casse: if saba and sweboz can suffer poor, lopsided, relatively unworkable rosters, why can't Casse too? It's not as if they were particularly awesome in pitched battles historically.

To put it in another way, it would be incredibly inconsistent and illogical to let celtic factions/units keep fear, saying they are unplayable otherwise, whilst removing cata fear from P + H.

And, prepare for war, for you have found peace intolerable. (Scipio quote there)

[The Celtic Viking]

With fear for Pahlava, AS, Baktria and eventually Saka, Hayasdan with fear is meaningless anyway. Pahlava and Saka work fine even without fear (see for example Lazy as Saka in one of the tournaments), definitely so for Baktria as well. The only ones who would need it are Sauros (who don't get it) and Hayasdan, who as I said are negated by the better ones having it as well.

So, no, your argument doesn't work there.

Oh, and Gaesatae + Uirodusios don't get scare because of gameplay reasons (although taking it away would, indeed, have the gameplay effect Robin describes). They get it because people who do not care about their own safety - which they appear not to do - are ******* scary opponents. It doesn't matter what equipment they've got - if you care about your life and your enemy appears not, he has a huge mental advantage over you. The fear factor for them is definitely warranted IMO.

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BTW, if you allow me to brag, my indian kataphract elephants just had 956 kills. Beat that!

[-Stormrage-]

I ask what's scary about any cataphract?
People were afraid of their "heavier" charge, but what's scary of an oven-man?

Can't they get "inspire" instead and another stat tweak?

Watch Brave heart, look at the scotish mans face when they tell him "300 heavy cavalry" he wets his pants. "300 heavy horse?!?!!

seee cav were scary , braveheart says so