Game of thrones mod

[RRMike]

Does one exist anywhere?

The reason I dug mtw back out was the release of DwD and the medieval mood those books always put me in.

See macsen rufus's replies for progress on his excellent Game of Thrones mod.

[drone]

To the best of my knowledge, no one has put together one for MTW. Over at TWC, they have a Westeros: Total War hosted mod for MTW2:Kingdoms, but I don't know what state it is in.

[macsen rufus]

Seriously bad thread necromancy, but is anyone still interested???

I've been at work recently, and will be able to release a Beta version in the next few weeks....

Campaign map - playing House Stark



Starks and Tullys in battle



Sample stats/names/ etc



Some of Duke John's WOTR textures fit in nicely



Diplomacy



The Pay Off...

[dimitrios the samian]

Whooa !! ... fantastic .
Im a fan of the Series also .
This is big news for us folk still battling away on good old MTW .
Its special Mac , probably will be much more popular than Ancients .
Do advertise it over at TWC when yr ready also
cheers

[drone]

Looks nice! Did you flesh out the religions?

[Leith]

Hello guys! Of course I'm interested! As a matter of fact I am watching Game of Thrones season 2 right now on my new laptop! Thank you, Mac, for everything you have contributed to the MTW community. Cheers!

[macsen rufus]

I am watching Game of Thrones season 2 right now on my new laptop!

I've just finished season 5 on DVD - I'll be very careful with possible spoilers

Looks nice! Did you flesh out the religions?

Thank you, Drone and yes - if you see the diplomacy parchment above, it shows two of the sigils I've used, the tree on the Stark shield being for the Old Gods (using Orthodox as its base), and the seven-pointed star for the Septics (Catholic underneath the covers...)

The Baratheons of Dragonstone follow R'hllor (Jewish religion/Catholic culture), with a flaming sword sigil, and the Ironborn (well, House Greyjoy as they're called in the mod) still have the trad Pagan pentagram, but all references are to 'following the Drowned God' etc. For Stannis in particular, getting on top of the religion thing is important to the campaign, as R'hllor isn't very popular in Westeros....

Playable factions are:

• Baratheons of Storm's End (ie Renly)
• House Arryn
• House Tyrell
• House Martell
• House Lannister
• House Tully
• House Greyjoy (FN_07, with all that entails )
• House Stark
• Baratheons of Dragonstone (ie Stannis)

I've even made provision for the rare occasion when the Greyjoys do that annoying conversion thing. There isn't any Muslim faction, as I wanted to keep a spare culture/religion in case I ever venture to Essos. There really are not enough religions/cultures for this world in MTW so I've had to be sparing. House Martell has a very 'muslim' feel about it, but they are Seveners, so have the same religion/culture attributes as the other Southron houses.

Appropriate agents are available: Maesters (emissary), Greenseers in the North, Red Priests for Stannis, Septons for the Seveners (which reminds me I should also do Drowned Men for the Greyjoys....)

Other details:

• 105 provinces
• King's Landing starts as a rebel province (because Robert has just died)
• Lots of titles and offices relevant to the story - eg Iron Throne in King's Landing gives 'Hand of the King'
• Alchemists' Guild in KL allows building Spitfires and Fire Galleys (plus a nice office)
• High Sept of Baelor in KL (+ office)
• Citadel of the Maesters in Oldtown (+ office)
• The three relevant cities have the City Watch unit (with valour bonus for Lannisport...)
• Various classes of knights spread around the factions: Southron Knights, Vale Knights, Reach Knights, Dornish Knights, Westerland Knights and Northern Heavy Cavalry (as most Northmen are not Seveners, of course....)

Textures used are mostly existing MTW ones, plus a few nice ones of Duke John's WOTR and mediaeval collection (had to do a lot of work on coordinates, though). This means that faction-shield units get proper faction shields. Inns are included for mercenaries, including some 'trainable' ones (in addition to 'hirable' ones), ie Sellsword Company, Free Riders and Mercenary Crossbows. I've renamed a lot of the units from MTW originals, and though they have the same icons (for now, may do some tweaks later...) do not confuse them with the MTW originals, for the stats/abilities are different.

For Leith's benefit, I won't say where crossbowmen get their ironic valour bonus

Faction names are drawn from the books, with surnames in each faction representing the appropriate banner houses.

The tech tree is pretty simple, and doesn't stray much from the VI route. I've also used my invisible, indestructible building system to control building possibilities in various provinces. Top level castle is Citadel, but this is only buildable in the faction capitals. I've added a few of my favourite battle maps from the Ancient mod...

Some notes on unit rosters:

• Northmen prefer mail
• Southrons prefer plate
• 'A Dornishman's two favourite weapons are the spear and the sun'
• Elite troops are only found in the capitals
• Availability of better ships is geographically limited

[Trapped in Samsara]

Hi

So, Winter is Coming to the venerable MTW.

Great stuff! I will be keeping tabs on this project of yours Mac.

Keep up the good work.

Best regards
VictorGB

Sapere aude
Horace

[drone]

Did you use the Mongol emergence mechanism to create an Other invasion in the North?

[macsen rufus]

'Fraid not, Drone

The map stops at the Wall - anything coming over the wall would need whole new animations etc, for one thing, and for the other I'm using the VI scheme rather than the MTW one... however it would be nice if it could be done somehow

[Axalon]

Man, I totally approve of this project... I also like that there are seemingly
fewer factions involved here for a change - keep goin Mac.... :D

- A

[macsen rufus]

Thanks YanBG & Axalon

Yan - I'm sure there must be a link for your units somewhere, I'll take a look and let you know if I want to borrow anything

Axalon - yeah, I try to keep factions 'true to the story' whether the story is real history or fictional. This mod is aimed directly at the War of the Five Kings, so of course there are nine factions

One weirdness that has cropped up, though - because I have used Jewish_religion for BARDS... sorry Baratheon of Dragonstone .... I have an issue with rebellions - majority 'Jewish' (ie R'hllor) provinces can rebel - but there is no army of rebels appearing at the end of the turn, even though it says the peasants are revolting.... unfortunately you can't add jewish peasants, loyalists etc to the rebelling troop mix, it always throws an 'Unknown label' error when I try.

This could be a major annoyance if I can't get to the bottom of it.... I haven't given up yet, but I think that's the problem (which is not so much a problem if you're playing BARDS, of course, because once you've converted the province to R'hllor, the peasants don't show up to rebel against you no matter how mean you are...) I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this non-appearing army issue, I think it's the religion thing, but I still need to check out the possible angle of army stratmap pieces, too. I'm running a Greyjoy campaign right now, and trying to convert a troublesome province to 'pagan' to see if the rebels start appearing once they're converted.


EDIT to add: ok, got YanBG's textures now - I think there could be a place for one or more to avoid re-using so many vanilla versions, and pleased to know that the custom folders can be used for extra mount animations

[Axalon]

Mac...

I screwed around with stuff like cultures and religions back in 2009-2010, and essentially found out that there are only two cultures/religions that are truly functional 100% in MTW - "Catholic" and "Muslim". While "Orthodox" and "Pagan" are almost functional all over - all the way up to audio and music (also I noted that princesses for pagans, the AI won't generate any new ones - this with some various exceptions in V.1.1, but you don't work with that engine, so no matter).

Anyhow, the Jewish and Heretic "religions" don't work as they just lack too many crucial parts in the game to do so - especially in regards to rebellions and AI-values and settings. There are none of that (as I understand it). This in turn makes both of them essentially non-functional beyond some odd agent or two, or possibly some building back and fourth.

What I am saying is that you probably can't build a functional and proper faction on a Jewish- or heretic-distinction at all. It lacks vital parts to get there - and that the stuff that need to be done (to make it happen) is seemingly hardcoded - so its a no-go basically. The same thing can also said about the "hidden culture" - called "Default" or "Christian", or some such (I don't remember the exact term) BUT it has the very same problem. While fully recognized in part by the MTW-engine - it still lacks vital parts to function seriously and properly within the MTW-mechanics. Such as AI- and rebellion-values (and possibly other stuff too). Thus rendering it essentially useless/non-functional for serious use in campaigns.

...I'm afraid you are stuck with four cultures only - Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim and pagan - and are forced too make due with just them. Heretic and Jewish won't work, due to the outlined reasons. Again, that is - if I remember all this stuff correctly - it was back in 2009-2010 that I did my research and experimenting on all this - so yeah, it was a long time ago - and I did not even bother to posting about my findings either at the time (thinking nobody here would have much use for them anyways).

- A

[macsen rufus]

Thanks for your thoughts, Axalon

The missing peasant rebels seem to be the major issue with using the Jewish_rel tag. As a faction, BarDS plays well enough, but AI Stannis is never going to be a major player, the starting position is just too tough for it

I did have an Israelite faction in the original Ancient release, and whilst it's a long time since I played it, I never actually noticed the missing Jewish peasant rebel problem. I think it was mostly down to the extremely slow rate of conversion (well, all apart from the time I accidentally gave Solomon's Temple an insanely high conversion factor by mistake and the entire Middle East converted in one turn, but that's another story....)

For BarDS, the religion is a thin veneer over their Catholic_culture, and it is culture which defines most of the AI behaviour. The AI 'personalities' are hard-coded and can only come from the predefined options, and these are what drive troop choices rather than religion per se. Also, loyalist rebellions work fine - this also suggests that culture is more significant than religion for some some functions.

So, I can't define 'Jewish_peasants' for rebelling troop mix column, but on the other hand, I don't NEED to define 'Jewish_loyalist'...

As far as princesses are concerned, I think they are working ok for BarDS - or possibly I just haven't noticed them NOT working... so that bears more investigation. I have the Greyjoys set for no princesses (pagan, FN_07) - well, have you SEEN the Ironborn women

I'm very tempted to turn down the rate of conversion a bit more for R'hllor - it is really the religion of the ruling House and not a popular one amongst their vassals - and it was part of my plan for them to struggle to impose R'hllor on Wetseros. I have some ideas for more tweaks, which should result in 'Jewish_peasants' rebellions being a lot less likely.

I shall persevere, and you've highlighted a few areas which will bear closer scrutiny

[drone]

As far as princesses are concerned, I think they are working ok for BarDS - or possibly I just haven't noticed them NOT working... so that bears more investigation.

From a canon standpoint, you probably don't really want princesses anyway. Shireen has greyscale, and Selyse has shown herself incapable of giving Stannis any more children.

[macsen rufus]

Shireen has greyscale, and Selyse has shown herself incapable of giving Stannis any more children.

Quite true, Drone. But we do have to go off-piste to some degree, as the canon is pretty brutal in places, without going into spoiler territory

Anyway, I've finished with the Greyjoys for now...



... so I can get back to doing some more work on other factions.


Updates since last time:

• I've made Oldtown and White Harbour more interesting
• Offices fleshed out a bit more
• Drowned men added as priests for Greyjoys
• A few more units added to the rosters, and a couple more in development...

I suppose a few more notes on units so far might be in order (just from memory, so will probably forget some):

Trainable mercenaries:

• Sellsword Company - swordsmen, good AP attack, weak defence
• Mercenary crossbows - smaller units than 'regular' crossbows, with cost penalty to boot
• Free Riders - medium cavalry (not available to Greyjoys) - dismount as Sellsword Company

Generic troops

• Archers
• Longbows
• Armoured Longbows (not available to Greyjoys or Starks)
• Crossbows (not available to Greyjoys)
• City Watch - three provinces only
• Levy Spearmen

Artillery

• Ballista
• Spitfire - King's Landing only, with Alchemists' Guild
• Catapult
• Mangonel
• Trebuchet

Infantry:

• Mountain Clansmen (Stark, 3 2 provinces - now with longbows)
• Northern Spearmen (Stark and Greyjoy)
• Northern Men at Arms (Stark)
• Northern Armoured Pikes (Stark)
• Umber Berserkers (Stark, Last Hearth only)
• Northern Sworn Swords (Stark)
• Crannogmen (Stark, The Neck only - now with bows)

• Men at Arms (Seveners)*
• Banner Spearmen (Seveners)
• Pikemen (Seveners)
• Levy Billmen (Seveners)
• Sworn Billmen (Seveners)
• Squires (Seveners)
• Foot Knights (Seveners)
• Vale Foot Knights (Arryn only)

• Dornish Archers - recurve bows
• Dornish Light Infantry - light spearmen, with javelins, can hide in open
• Dornish Heavy Infantry - heavier spears, with better armour

• Ironborn Raiders - medium infantry, swords
• Ironborn Reavers - medium infantry, axes
• Ironborn Kingsguard - heavy infantry, axes (BG unit)
• Spearmen

Cavalry - factions should be clear from the names
BG Units:

• Northern Heavy Cavalry - dismount as Northern Sworn Swords
• Southron Knights (Tully and both Baratheon) - dismount as Foot Knights
• Vale Knights - dismount as Vale Foot Knights
• Westerland Knights - dismount as Foot Knights
• Reach Knights - dismount as Foot Knights
• Dornish Knights - dismount as Dornish Heavy Infantry

Light/medium cavalry:

• Horsemen (Seveners + Stark) - dismount as Levy Spearmen
• Mounted Raiders (Greyjoy) - dismount as Ironborn Raiders
• Sand Riders (Martell) - dismount as Dornish Light Infantry
• Dornish Light Cavalry - dismount as Dornish Light Infantry
• Dornish Horse Archers - dismount as Dornish Archers

Other heavy cavalry:

• Mounted Bannermen (Seveners)
• Knights of the White Knife (Stark, White Harbour only)

With Faith Miltant: Seveners only, King's Landing

• Poor Fellows - light infantry
• Warrior's Sons - heavy cavalry
• Warrior's Sons Foot Knights - heavy infantry

* Seveners roster includes Baratheons of Dragonstone, but NOT Martell

[Leith]

Thank you for the update! Looking forward to the beta release!

[dimitrios the samian]

Thank you for the update! Looking forward to the beta release!

im another mac , a great update really nice troop variety .....

@ Leith some of those Huscarles you been modding would be ideal variants for mac to have a look at ....
cheers guys

[macsen rufus]

@DtS - thanks for the mail, got the BMPs There's definitely one I can use (for Lannister Guardsmen), but I'll draw up a full list after a bit more thunking...

UPDATE:

On the plus side, I can confirm the 'Jewish' princesses are working, they keep getting born throughout the campaign.

On the downside, I've hit a weird problem with custom battles, which WERE working fine 'til a couple of days ago, and it's one I've never seen before. Now I get a rapid CTD from the troop selection screen - BOTH going forward into battle AND going backwards to the custom battle menu.

Battles in campaign mode work fine, so I can rule out almost everything that could be at fault! ie it's not sprites, unit icons, battlemap textures, maps, unit choices etc.

On the troop selection screen I get all the units I expect for the right factions - shields, colours and everything works fine up to that point. I can fill up the army slots as per normal, and irrespective of faction, map, units or ANYTHING I can do differently up to that point, it will CTD if I click either the 'Continue' or the 'Back'. Even going backwards with no units selected, it still CTDs.

And I really have no idea why. It was still working fine when I tested the Knights of the White Fork a couple of days ago. Today I started work on the Faith Militant units, made the Poor Fellows and lo! - this problem crops up. I've removed the new unit totally, to no avail (well, the names.txt and descriptions.txt edits still stand, and the new texture BIF which is otherwise completely unused). I really can't think of anyhting else I've changed which could have any impact like this. What's so weird is that it seems tied to leaving a screen which is working in itself.

Any ideas???

Edit to add: Never mind, issue resolved. I still don't know the exact cause, but I cleared all the unused units out of the UNIT_PROD last night, and in the process re-ordered it to make the recruitment panel more organised, and then made the necessary changes to DEADPAGECOORDS to keep the bodies working. Somehow, after all that, custom battles now work again! I would have preferred to find the actual error, because it must be subtle if everything else worked okay, but at least narrowing it down to two files is helpful should it ever happen again...

[macsen rufus]

Update:

One option for devout Sevener factions is to restore the Faith Militant, the armed wing of the Faith of the Seven. If you do, you will be able to recruit the "Swords and Stars" to your cause - these are the Warrior's Sons and the Poor Fellows respectively. Whether this works out well for you, is entirely within your power....

Here they are, trashing some levy spearmen from the Vale:

[macsen rufus]

Thanks to a tip-off from DtS, I had a look at the METW textures (now there's another mod that deserves finishing!) and have found some useful ones. I thought they looked a bit familiar, and it seems they are yet more of Duke John's work, and I trust his throwing open his other units for re-use also extends to these beauties.

As a result, I can present some Vale Foot Knights going up against some Lannister Guardsmen:



That's another step towards making the factions more differentiated...

[dimitrios the samian]

Fantastic !!
Im glad you found some immediately & the way you matched there faction colors .
I appreciate the mention ...
I just knew these awesome troops were ideal for your "Game of Thrones" mod .
Take a closer peek again it will yield more gems , cavalry that match these Vale Knights & Lannister Guardsmen & some amazing "Castles".
I also think those Bowmen could be used , as specialists if required by simply altering there all "greyish" uniforms/cloaks into "fac colors shades" .....( I need to learn this too)
Anyway , about those Castles , I only ever seen a few screenies , but wow !! they also looked really good .
I think Stazi would be pleased they will see usage .
Keep up the great work here on G.O.T macsen , I'm still plugging away here down under mate .

[macsen rufus]

I also think those Bowmen could be used , as specialists if required by simply altering there all "greyish" uniforms/cloaks into "fac colors shades"

I already have plans for that BIF as it stands, but I need to make sure I have enough folders (same old story, once you start piling in new stuff it starts getting crowded in there...)

Pity there's no excuse whatsoever to use the Nazghul BIF, that looks fantastic....

[dimitrios the samian]

I already have plans for that BIF as it stands, but I need to make sure I have enough folders (same old story, once you start piling in new stuff it starts getting crowded in there...)

Pity there's no excuse whatsoever to use the Nazghul BIF, that looks fantastic....

Great !! .. im glad you liked it enough to use it ..... 1 dedicated folder for him is deserved .
Mac ,,, If need be , we just have to begin using the 640x640 bif plates where required ......... "Variety is the spice of life" .
A few of those METW Plates are only a bit more than half full , so common-sense dictates we look into it .

Nazghul Bif ?? ... hmmmm is that the beast ?

TIP >>
I must also mention the superb Cavalry in the "Pike & Musket" mod .
I think its worth taking a peek , some of those Arab/Eastern types , could easily slot straight in .

& why not once again break new ground by some "Bif Plate restructuring .
By putting 2 Riders into one 640 Plate we double our options .
Time well invested .

[Leith]

Hello everyone! Glad to see you are making progress, Mac. I would like to point you to two particular bifs in METW: Dervish and Plates. They are nice and versatile, especially the Dervish bif. The weapon and shield co-ordinates require some tuning but overall they are worth it. I actually started modifying some of the METW bifs several months ago but could never have the time to finish them up. My incomplete work wouldn't help at this point

P.S Finishing up the METW mod is a dream for me so I'm sure I will be able to help if you decide to take on this project in the future

[macsen rufus]

Thanks both..

As for doing 640px BIFs etc, I'm trying not to get sucked into another year-long project this time I did absolutely NOTHING to my garden last year and it will need putting straight this year....

@DtS - the Nazghul are the Wraith Kings.

The Bowman BIF will be used for Crannogmen - replacing the stand-in Slav Warriors I've used so far - and I'll use the spear-only frames for a rebel unit. I'll also be replacing the Northern Mountain Clansmen so they're more interesting than a Highland Clansman clone .

Leith - I did consider the PlateS for the Lannister Guards, but thought the Peasant BIF was a better fit in the end. The Dervish BIF was also part of Duke John's 'Various Mediaeval' units he released years ago, so I've had that for quite a while already, but still haven't really found a use for it - put it this way, there are uses for it, but I've stuck with MTW originals in order to keep the facshields by re-using vanilla units and re-naming them.

You're correct about the co-ordinates - I can only assume Duke John did most of this work before the modding community completely cracked how the various co-ordinate systems work. I've redone the co-ords for the units I've used so far and the animations run more smoothly. The worst error was with various archers who seemed to teleport ten feet forwards and backwards every time they started/stopped firing (oh, and the 'jumping knights' who leap into the air every time they go from walking to running, or the camera angle changes)

I suspect one reason DJ did so many units with weapons already drawn in on the BIFs might have been frustration at how tricky weapon coordinates can be. Anyway, with the benefit of hindsight we can give his artistry new life, and they are very nice designs and well rendered, and DJ will deserve big credit for his work.

[dimitrios the samian]

Great choice mac , that Bowman Bif is really well done & I finally look forward to finally seeing in in use .
& re:640 plates , I understand , there is no need to invest all that precious time ......
"We need you leading the way "

& its great that you offered to help out Leith , as your updates to yr Mod have become "non-existent" .
Are you still working away on it ? .....
cheers guys

psss .... just curios mac , will this Bif be used or have you considered using it ?

[Leith]

Hello dimitrios! Regrettably I stopped working on my mod about four months ago, just when I changed my job. My new job is so demanding I have barely enough time to do anything else. Having said that I'm planning to take some time off in Ramadan, in June that's. Hopefully by then I'll have contributed to modding MTW somehow. Cheers!

[macsen rufus]

@DtS - yes, I have seen the janni BIF, and yes, I do have something lurking at the back of my mind for it, though possibly not for this scenario.... I'm beginning to harbour thoughts about a 'Struggle for the North' or something similar, if only for the chance of giving the Boltons a darn good kicking The thing is I'm not sure there's really enough possible factions to make it work out, and of course it's way off the canon..... but then this is just a game, so why not play with it? Let's just say my thoughts about this BIF include liberal use of the 'scale' parameter...

There's also the wider job of bringing Essos (and Daenerys) into the fold, for another scenario.... so this could keep growing.

I've just laid hands on the season 6 box set, so I've almost caught up on folks who can watch it on TV.

Recently I've been tweaking the map and border data, and imported more new maps for it, and have been giving the Starks another run to test out the latest units. I've also redone all the unit costs based on the equipment for each one, and it seems to have stopped the tendency to spam c@rp units. I've tried to help poor old Stannis in the startpos, but he's still on a hiding to nothing unless the player takes control - I think that will be the official 'hardest faction', and the Tyrells the easiest - though I haven't actually played out the Tyrells, Arryns or Lannisters in campaign yet, just a few custom battles to test out their specialist units.

I think it's just tweaks and a bit more play-testing between now and a beta release, so I'm hoping to have something to release before too long

[macsen rufus]

... and the Tyrells the easiest

I hereby officially eat my words

I've been trying out the Tyrells for the last couple of days, and the Greyjoys have been doing what they have never done when I've played other factions - namely giving the Tyrells their almost undivided attention! It has taken a long while to secure the coasts, and keep boats afloat, and finally start developing those coastal provinces that keep getting trashed. It's certainly been a fun time. It took two attempts to capture King's Landing from the rebels, which didn't do my heir's personality any good. And the civil war didn't help, that took another couple of turns to quell.

All I can say is thank the Seven for the Shield Islands and the Redwyne Fleet - they have really played their proper role in this campaign. It has been hard fighting back against the Ironborn as they just jump on their ships and land somewhere else, whilst my land forces are trudging through the mountains trying to catch them.

Anyway, I finally managed to build enough dromons to keep them out, and slowly ground down their fleet, and now I have my Hand sitting on Pyke, with a big stack of mercenaries (yeah, it was the only way to win the civil war when my 16 year old prince rebelled against me as his first adult act...)

I was very nicely allied to everyone but the Greyjoys when the Baratheons of Storm's End invaded, and all our mutual allies abandoned my cause. Then the Lannisters came in the other side, and all the rest of my allies sided with them... however, the Lannister army was reduced to single figures by the time it returned home

There's been some good battles against very unfavourable odds, and I'm pleased to say the recent changes to border info and the new maps are working out well. I still have a few battle maps that don't have 'winter' pre-battle images (and winter does come quite often...) but apart from that I think I'm happy to make the installer now. So, by the end of next week there should be the long-awaited beta release.

Happy St Patrick's Day