Game of thrones mod

[Axalon]

Man, I totally approve of this project... I also like that there are seemingly
fewer factions involved here for a change - keep goin Mac.... :D

- A

[macsen rufus]

Thanks YanBG & Axalon

Yan - I'm sure there must be a link for your units somewhere, I'll take a look and let you know if I want to borrow anything

Axalon - yeah, I try to keep factions 'true to the story' whether the story is real history or fictional. This mod is aimed directly at the War of the Five Kings, so of course there are nine factions

One weirdness that has cropped up, though - because I have used Jewish_religion for BARDS... sorry Baratheon of Dragonstone .... I have an issue with rebellions - majority 'Jewish' (ie R'hllor) provinces can rebel - but there is no army of rebels appearing at the end of the turn, even though it says the peasants are revolting.... unfortunately you can't add jewish peasants, loyalists etc to the rebelling troop mix, it always throws an 'Unknown label' error when I try.

This could be a major annoyance if I can't get to the bottom of it.... I haven't given up yet, but I think that's the problem (which is not so much a problem if you're playing BARDS, of course, because once you've converted the province to R'hllor, the peasants don't show up to rebel against you no matter how mean you are...) I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this non-appearing army issue, I think it's the religion thing, but I still need to check out the possible angle of army stratmap pieces, too. I'm running a Greyjoy campaign right now, and trying to convert a troublesome province to 'pagan' to see if the rebels start appearing once they're converted.


EDIT to add: ok, got YanBG's textures now - I think there could be a place for one or more to avoid re-using so many vanilla versions, and pleased to know that the custom folders can be used for extra mount animations

[Axalon]

Mac...

I screwed around with stuff like cultures and religions back in 2009-2010, and essentially found out that there are only two cultures/religions that are truly functional 100% in MTW - "Catholic" and "Muslim". While "Orthodox" and "Pagan" are almost functional all over - all the way up to audio and music (also I noted that princesses for pagans, the AI won't generate any new ones - this with some various exceptions in V.1.1, but you don't work with that engine, so no matter).

Anyhow, the Jewish and Heretic "religions" don't work as they just lack too many crucial parts in the game to do so - especially in regards to rebellions and AI-values and settings. There are none of that (as I understand it). This in turn makes both of them essentially non-functional beyond some odd agent or two, or possibly some building back and fourth.

What I am saying is that you probably can't build a functional and proper faction on a Jewish- or heretic-distinction at all. It lacks vital parts to get there - and that the stuff that need to be done (to make it happen) is seemingly hardcoded - so its a no-go basically. The same thing can also said about the "hidden culture" - called "Default" or "Christian", or some such (I don't remember the exact term) BUT it has the very same problem. While fully recognized in part by the MTW-engine - it still lacks vital parts to function seriously and properly within the MTW-mechanics. Such as AI- and rebellion-values (and possibly other stuff too). Thus rendering it essentially useless/non-functional for serious use in campaigns.

...I'm afraid you are stuck with four cultures only - Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim and pagan - and are forced too make due with just them. Heretic and Jewish won't work, due to the outlined reasons. Again, that is - if I remember all this stuff correctly - it was back in 2009-2010 that I did my research and experimenting on all this - so yeah, it was a long time ago - and I did not even bother to posting about my findings either at the time (thinking nobody here would have much use for them anyways).

- A

[macsen rufus]

Thanks for your thoughts, Axalon

The missing peasant rebels seem to be the major issue with using the Jewish_rel tag. As a faction, BarDS plays well enough, but AI Stannis is never going to be a major player, the starting position is just too tough for it

I did have an Israelite faction in the original Ancient release, and whilst it's a long time since I played it, I never actually noticed the missing Jewish peasant rebel problem. I think it was mostly down to the extremely slow rate of conversion (well, all apart from the time I accidentally gave Solomon's Temple an insanely high conversion factor by mistake and the entire Middle East converted in one turn, but that's another story....)

For BarDS, the religion is a thin veneer over their Catholic_culture, and it is culture which defines most of the AI behaviour. The AI 'personalities' are hard-coded and can only come from the predefined options, and these are what drive troop choices rather than religion per se. Also, loyalist rebellions work fine - this also suggests that culture is more significant than religion for some some functions.

So, I can't define 'Jewish_peasants' for rebelling troop mix column, but on the other hand, I don't NEED to define 'Jewish_loyalist'...

As far as princesses are concerned, I think they are working ok for BarDS - or possibly I just haven't noticed them NOT working... so that bears more investigation. I have the Greyjoys set for no princesses (pagan, FN_07) - well, have you SEEN the Ironborn women

I'm very tempted to turn down the rate of conversion a bit more for R'hllor - it is really the religion of the ruling House and not a popular one amongst their vassals - and it was part of my plan for them to struggle to impose R'hllor on Wetseros. I have some ideas for more tweaks, which should result in 'Jewish_peasants' rebellions being a lot less likely.

I shall persevere, and you've highlighted a few areas which will bear closer scrutiny

[drone]

As far as princesses are concerned, I think they are working ok for BarDS - or possibly I just haven't noticed them NOT working... so that bears more investigation.

From a canon standpoint, you probably don't really want princesses anyway. Shireen has greyscale, and Selyse has shown herself incapable of giving Stannis any more children.

[macsen rufus]

Shireen has greyscale, and Selyse has shown herself incapable of giving Stannis any more children.

Quite true, Drone. But we do have to go off-piste to some degree, as the canon is pretty brutal in places, without going into spoiler territory

Anyway, I've finished with the Greyjoys for now...



... so I can get back to doing some more work on other factions.


Updates since last time:

• I've made Oldtown and White Harbour more interesting
• Offices fleshed out a bit more
• Drowned men added as priests for Greyjoys
• A few more units added to the rosters, and a couple more in development...

I suppose a few more notes on units so far might be in order (just from memory, so will probably forget some):

Trainable mercenaries:

• Sellsword Company - swordsmen, good AP attack, weak defence
• Mercenary crossbows - smaller units than 'regular' crossbows, with cost penalty to boot
• Free Riders - medium cavalry (not available to Greyjoys) - dismount as Sellsword Company

Generic troops

• Archers
• Longbows
• Armoured Longbows (not available to Greyjoys or Starks)
• Crossbows (not available to Greyjoys)
• City Watch - three provinces only
• Levy Spearmen

Artillery

• Ballista
• Spitfire - King's Landing only, with Alchemists' Guild
• Catapult
• Mangonel
• Trebuchet

Infantry:

• Mountain Clansmen (Stark, 3 2 provinces - now with longbows)
• Northern Spearmen (Stark and Greyjoy)
• Northern Men at Arms (Stark)
• Northern Armoured Pikes (Stark)
• Umber Berserkers (Stark, Last Hearth only)
• Northern Sworn Swords (Stark)
• Crannogmen (Stark, The Neck only - now with bows)

• Men at Arms (Seveners)*
• Banner Spearmen (Seveners)
• Pikemen (Seveners)
• Levy Billmen (Seveners)
• Sworn Billmen (Seveners)
• Squires (Seveners)
• Foot Knights (Seveners)
• Vale Foot Knights (Arryn only)

• Dornish Archers - recurve bows
• Dornish Light Infantry - light spearmen, with javelins, can hide in open
• Dornish Heavy Infantry - heavier spears, with better armour

• Ironborn Raiders - medium infantry, swords
• Ironborn Reavers - medium infantry, axes
• Ironborn Kingsguard - heavy infantry, axes (BG unit)
• Spearmen

Cavalry - factions should be clear from the names
BG Units:

• Northern Heavy Cavalry - dismount as Northern Sworn Swords
• Southron Knights (Tully and both Baratheon) - dismount as Foot Knights
• Vale Knights - dismount as Vale Foot Knights
• Westerland Knights - dismount as Foot Knights
• Reach Knights - dismount as Foot Knights
• Dornish Knights - dismount as Dornish Heavy Infantry

Light/medium cavalry:

• Horsemen (Seveners + Stark) - dismount as Levy Spearmen
• Mounted Raiders (Greyjoy) - dismount as Ironborn Raiders
• Sand Riders (Martell) - dismount as Dornish Light Infantry
• Dornish Light Cavalry - dismount as Dornish Light Infantry
• Dornish Horse Archers - dismount as Dornish Archers

Other heavy cavalry:

• Mounted Bannermen (Seveners)
• Knights of the White Knife (Stark, White Harbour only)

With Faith Miltant: Seveners only, King's Landing

• Poor Fellows - light infantry
• Warrior's Sons - heavy cavalry
• Warrior's Sons Foot Knights - heavy infantry

* Seveners roster includes Baratheons of Dragonstone, but NOT Martell

[Leith]

Thank you for the update! Looking forward to the beta release!