Russian planes

**Reenk Roink** · 09-07-2011, 21:16

Dunno if anyone knows (blame Sportscenter for talking 1 minute about it and 20 minutes about Peyton Manning

), but the plane of the KHL team Lokomotiv Yaroslavl crashed this morning on takeoff, killing all but two. Every roster player died except one who was in beyond critical condition and I've heard rumors of his passing as well (not substantiated thank god).

In trying to follow the news throughout the day I read a lot of contradictory about these Soviet era planes in general sucking, or being fine themselves and having bad maintenance and crews. I even read one thing about the plane that went down not even meeting some EU standards so it couldn't fly in the airspace. If true, it is a freaking crime that people are allowed to board such planes.

It's a longshot but does anyone know any more about aviation in Russia here? There's such a tangled mess of info on the web in English and I can't read Russian which means most of the legit and good info is inaccessible so it would really satisfy my want to know about this.

RIP to all the victims and hopefully the survivors make it out and recover from what can only be described as horrific injuries and burns.

Lokomotiv's coach was Detroit's assistant coach until recently, and there were many players who played in the NHL, including several for Detroit. Pavol Demetria was a pretty big star in the NHL in the late 90s and I remember him vividly as a kid watching him on the Blues be a rival to my Wings. This was one of the KHL's powerhouse teams, and they could definitely stand up to some NHL teams.

**CrossLOPER** · 09-07-2011, 21:27

There are little faults in every aspect of the aviation program, just like everything else. They often culminate into disasters such as this.

**Peasant Phill** · 09-07-2011, 22:10

Russia does have a bad reputation when it comes to the state of their airline aircrafts. Whether this is substantiated or not is perhaps food for discussion.

**Fragony** · 09-08-2011, 09:12

Ever read Oblomov

**Major Robert Dump** · 09-08-2011, 12:49

I am not joking when I say this.

2 Russian chopper transport companies have had their contracts pulled because of intoxicated pilots and shoddy piecemealed birds that were a danger to ride on. The last one, who was replaced by Molson Air (Canadians), quite literally had drunk pilots fist fighting on our LZ and liquor bottles rolling around. Cargo escort passengers wold complain about what appeared to be an excessive amount of duct tape and zip ties

**CrossLOPER** · 09-08-2011, 12:56

Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

I am not joking when I say this.

2 Russian chopper transport companies have had their contracts pulled because of intoxicated pilots and shoddy piecemealed birds that were a danger to ride on. The last one, who was replaced by Molson Air (Canadians), quite literally had drunk pilots fist fighting on our LZ and liquor bottles rolling around. Cargo escort passengers wold complain about what appeared to be an excessive amount of duct tape and zip ties

That is not surprising.

**Reenk Roink** · 09-08-2011, 14:42

I've since been able to get a lot more information on what happened. Not sure how much of it is exaggeration and hyperbole, but the general idea painted seems sober and realistic, if not grim. The stats are that Russian aviation is the most dangerous in the world (13 times higher accident rate than average). The main problem does seem to be more in the maintenance and crew than in the aircraft themselves. These problems arise mainly in charter and domestic flights, as internationally, some international standards are followed, and Russian standards are more lax.

About the Lokomotiv plane, it was apparently a model that had some problems in the past. Somebody from the team (who actually WASN'T on the plane) said they never had any problems before with their plane before.

**Strike For The South** · 09-08-2011, 15:04

Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

I am not joking when I say this.

2 Russian chopper transport companies have had their contracts pulled because of intoxicated pilots and shoddy piecemealed birds that were a danger to ride on. The last one, who was replaced by Molson Air (Canadians), quite literally had drunk pilots fist fighting on our LZ and liquor bottles rolling around. Cargo escort passengers wold complain about what appeared to be an excessive amount of duct tape and zip ties

Russia just doesn't give a damn lolz

**drone** · 09-08-2011, 15:39

Aleksandr Karpovtsev and Igor Korolyov were on the plane, they were assistant coaches. What a shame.

**CrossLOPER** · 09-08-2011, 21:41

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

I've since been able to get a lot more information on what happened. Not sure how much of it is exaggeration and hyperbole, but the general idea painted seems sober and realistic, if not grim. The stats are that Russian aviation is the most dangerous in the world (13 times higher accident rate than average). The main problem does seem to be more in the maintenance and crew than in the aircraft themselves. These problems arise mainly in charter and domestic flights, as internationally, some international standards are followed, and Russian standards are more lax.

About the Lokomotiv plane, it was apparently a model that had some problems in the past. Somebody from the team (who actually WASN'T on the plane) said they never had any problems before with their plane before.

There is a trend that is only now being uncovered more widely, where owners of certain firms think is a brilliant idea to save money by not investing anything into what they are selling. They instead use the money to pay off officials. It's just cheaper to do that and this type of thing is so widespread in less prosperous areas. Of course some get caught and get put in prison for a long time. Really, most of these smaller firms need to be seized, but then you'll just have one corruptible body instead of many.

**Papewaio** · 09-09-2011, 01:40

Cost cutting in service, crew training, crew benefits and pay plus cutting back on maintenance is happening across the industry. Russia is just starting from a worse position.

Qantas is cutting back (again) and they wonder why their brand reputation is getting diluted... it's not the accountants or kangaroo it's the engineers and pilots that made it successful.

**Peasant Phill** · 09-09-2011, 12:07

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

... The stats are that Russian aviation is the most dangerous in the world (13 times higher accident rate than average). The main problem does seem to be more in the maintenance and crew than in the aircraft themselves. These problems arise mainly in charter and domestic flights, as internationally, some international standards are followed, and Russian standards are more lax...

I would've expected some African country to be the most dangerous but then it could be that most of those fights aren't registered.

**Beskar** · 09-09-2011, 13:05

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Russia just doesn't give a damn lolz

It is why America won the Cold War. They were too drunk on the Vodka to care enough.

But yes, this is a tragedy and I wish their families the best.

**Sigurd** · 09-09-2011, 14:21

In our news the talk has been that it was bad quality fuel that caused the plane to not reach sufficient altitude and it hit a radio mast before swerving and stalling.