New features I want EBII to provide

[illyric]

Hi

In order to make the game more historically accurate and the game-play more enjoyable there are some things I would like to discuss:

1- Limiting the number of super units. I've noticed that when playing RTW, RSII, MTWII, and Europa Barbarorum almost all the players (including me) tend to recruit only elites. For example while playing Epirrus in EB I made a full army of Kaonion and Moloss Agema supported by powerful Hyspaspistai and elephants. I don't think in reality Pirrus could do this (neither his successors) simply because the Molossos and Kaones couldn't field so many soldiers. So, on my opinion the elite soldiers should be limited only in huge cities and let us say no more than one superunit for each city (no more than one hyspaspistai, kaonion agema, moloss agema and elephant for that city). This thing would make the player use also some low quality units that he uses only for keeping order in cities.

2- Retraining should be done automatically (like in ShogunII) or you will have to pay for it (like in Empire Total War), but the player shouldn't turn back all of his decimated units to retrain them in their homeland. I don't think they sent their armies back for retraining (also it is very boring).

3- New wanders that were build after the beginning of the game can also be build in that place by the player (or AI) when the time is right (like in Roma SurrectumII). Let us say if a wonder was build in 160 BC the player (or AI) can build it when the year is 165 (if five years was the time spent for building it).

BR guys

[Arjos]

1: Already implemented thanks to the recruiting pools.

2: Afaik this can't be done due to the M2TW's engine.

3: In a recent interview Foot explained how every settlement will be "unique", also about new wonders, the only one I could think of is the complex at Pergamon, which could be easily portrayed by a temple; maybe Pompeius Magnus' first stone theatre in Roma... I can't think of anything else that wasn't already present at the start date, beside bigger temples etc...

[Diodredai]

Hi there.

1. I agree with you on that 100% in Medieval 2 Total war if I remember correctly (Although I've been playing Empire, Shogun and Napoleon for too long...) that you could field only a limited number of certain units, with scripting this could be substituted for this reason.

2. The Medieval 2 Total War engine does not have the features unfortunatley of retraining automatically if I recall correctly this was introduced only in Napoleon (one out of many reasons why it was superior to Empire, even though being smaller in scale) therefore I believe (unless I am incorrect and with heavy scripting it is possible) you can do it the old fashioned (and btw historically quite accurate way) of merging units. For example, you have two units that have had heavy losses in the last battle, you may merge the two, however the game accounts for the problems with merging by losing several experience ranks when merging a persay gold unit with a non experienced unit.

3. It is possible to create wonders in the form of buildings in the city roster, however I believe currently the EB2 team is working on the visual representation of already created wonders in ancient times (the Pyramids to name one), thus it is possible, however you will not burst out in a shriek of joy once you realise your Roman empire has control of nearly all the wonders of the ancient world.

- Diodredai

[bobbin]

Hi

In order to make the game more historically accurate and the game-play more enjoyable there are some things I would like to discuss:

1- Limiting the number of super units. I've noticed that when playing RTW, RSII, MTWII, and Europa Barbarorum almost all the players (including me) tend to recruit only elites. For example while playing Epirrus in EB I made a full army of Kaonion and Moloss Agema supported by powerful Hyspaspistai and elephants. I don't think in reality Pirrus could do this (neither his successors) simply because the Molossos and Kaones couldn't field so many soldiers. So, on my opinion the elite soldiers should be limited only in huge cities and let us say no more than one superunit for each city (no more than one hyspaspistai, kaonion agema, moloss agema and elephant for that city). This thing would make the player use also some low quality units that he uses only for keeping order in cities.

Already a part of the M2TW engine, we use it extensively.

2- Retraining should be done automatically (like in ShogunII) or you will have to pay for it (like in Empire Total War), but the player shouldn't turn back all of his decimated units to retrain them in their homeland. I don't think they sent their armies back for retraining (also it is very boring).

Not possible and not historical.

3- New wanders that were build after the beginning of the game can also be build in that place by the player (or AI) when the time is right (like in Roma SurrectumII). Let us say if a wonder was build in 160 BC the player (or AI) can build it when the year is 165 (if five years was the time spent for building it).

We haven't discussed such an idea but I doubt we would go down the path of letting the player construct specific wonders, they will probably be represented within the Civic Buildings that Foot talked about in his interview.

[illyric]

Thank you for your replies guys!

So I guess retraining should be removed after all!?

[bobbin]

No, it is just unhistorical to be able to retrain units outside of the regions they were from. Eg It would be unhistorical to be able to retrain Triarii in Britain.

[I_damian]

Seeing as we're all demanding things...

I DEMAND A RELEASE DATE!

[antisocialmunky]

I just want to see what the full Germanic unit Rooster looks like.

[stratigos vasilios]

Quick question, units recruited per turn (i.e. Minor city 1 unit, Huge city 3 units), is that able to be edited or hard coded in the m2tw engine?

I'm not sure how it would function gameplay wise to be able to recruit 7-10 units per turn, that's not what I'm suggesting or wanting, but I'm just curious on the answer.

Can I ask if EBII will have multiple unit recruitment per turn (in each city...or only in some cities?) or the single unit per turn in rtw?

EDIT: Yes I know this wasn't really related to the thread, apologies.

[antisocialmunky]

I think it would make more sense if you could levy like 3-4 units each 1-2 years or so since armies were mass levied and not recruited piece meal over several years.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I just want to see what the full Germanic unit Rooster looks like.

You're talking about this guy, right?

[Arjos]

LOOOOOOOOL XD

[stratigos vasilios]

LOOOOOOOOL XD

+1!!!

[Populus Romanus]

You're talking about this guy, right?

That is only part of the Germanic Rooster. You cut off the legs.

[HFox]

You're talking about this guy, right?

Where does this unit fit in the rooster pecking order?

[TheLastDays]

That is only part of the Germanic Rooster. You cut off the legs.

Exactly, we wanted the full unit rooster

[Blxz]

This definately. It would be better to be able to recruit quite a large number of units at once. Of course the recruitment pools will balance out the numbers and frequency that we can do this.

EDIT: Thats odd, didn't post my quote. I was quoting antisocial about unit levying.

[Ca Putt]

I knew that pic would be used again :D

[Moros]

Little known fact is that roosters only evolved legs after our timeframe.

[fireblade]

Quick question, units recruited per turn (i.e. Minor city 1 unit, Huge city 3 units), is that able to be edited or hard coded in the m2tw engine?

I think it can be edited, if I recall correctly, in stainless steel, you can recruit 4/5 units from a huge city each turn.

Also, nice rooster :p

[Populus Romanus]

Little known fact is that roosters only evolved legs after our timeframe.

[DaciaJC]

Little known fact is that roosters only evolved legs after our timeframe.

Haha!

[Geppenguin]

I don't know if this is applicable to this thread, but I'd like to raise an issue that came to mind about a possible bug with elephants in EBII
This first came to my attention after playing Broken Crescent. In that mod, elephants are not used effectively by the AI, as their primary weapon is their ranged weapon, i.e. javelins/arrows. This was because in M2TW, elephant primary attack was ranged. This resulted in situations where I charged my elephants against theirs (using alt + attack), and more or less massacred them because they didn't fight back. All they did was to fire javelins while the opposing elephants simply stood there and took damage. It also meant that they rarely actively charge them into battle, greatly reducing their effectiveness. Hence, it would be wise for the EBII team to ensure that melee attack is the elephant primary weapon, as in RTW.
Another thing was that my elephants were near impossible to kill. I'm not sure how the combat system differs in M2TW from RTW, but in this case their high armour made it possible for one battalion of elephants to massacre entire battalions of infantry without taking any casualties. One user solved this problem by drastically reducing their armour and instead making them rely on hitpoints for survival.
As the use of elephants was clearly shown in the Taksashila preview, I hope that this means that the elephants of M2TW will not suffer from any of the issues above due to them already having been tested. In the event that this was missed out, just would like to point it out.
Thanks!

[vartan]

Little known fact is that roosters only evolved legs after our timeframe.

Source?

[Cambyses]

Recruiting multiple units per turn is essential in that with M2TW retraining a unit takes a recruitment slot and uses up part of the recruitment pool. Its not like repairing a damaged building any more...

Also, it encourages the mod to use units that require several turns to train, an important feature I would have thought when that mod wants to create a slow pace of play and restrict elite units.

[kaptainplanet]

Hello. I would like to see some things in EBII. I will list them followingly:

1. In the chart where you see the graphs of the factions, the vertical axis grows as big as it has in order to accomodate the faction with the highest score. For example, if Pontus has a treasury of 100000000 and all the other factions are poor, the graph will dwarf the lines of the other factions, and they will all be squeezed together. That makes sence because the graph also includes Pontus. But even if you unclick pontus and exlude it from the graph, the graph remains unchanged. You still cannot see the situation of the other factions, their liens are still pressed down all togetehr at the bottom of the graph. So, mayme it is possible to make the graphs represent the relative and not the absolute values? Meaning only the factions chosen to be included in the graph should be calculated. I hope what I wanted to say was clear, i am not very sure i communicated what i had in mind clearly....

2. It would be nice to see actual hoplite formations. Tight together, and each man covering his left comrade with his shield. Also packed together depth-wise, since the ones in the back were pushing their front one forward with their hoplon. The way they fight in EB is like they are fighting individually....

That was what i could think now my friends!

[SneakyNinja]

Hello. I would like to see some things in EBII. I will list them followingly:

1. In the chart where you see the graphs of the factions, the vertical axis grows as big as it has in order to accomodate the faction with the highest score. For example, if Pontus has a treasury of 100000000 and all the other factions are poor, the graph will dwarf the lines of the other factions, and they will all be squeezed together. That makes sence because the graph also includes Pontus. But even if you unclick pontus and exlude it from the graph, the graph remains unchanged. You still cannot see the situation of the other factions, their liens are still pressed down all togetehr at the bottom of the graph. So, mayme it is possible to make the graphs represent the relative and not the absolute values? Meaning only the factions chosen to be included in the graph should be calculated. I hope what I wanted to say was clear, i am not very sure i communicated what i had in mind clearly....

2. It would be nice to see actual hoplite formations. Tight together, and each man covering his left comrade with his shield. Also packed together depth-wise, since the ones in the back were pushing their front one forward with their hoplon. The way they fight in EB is like they are fighting individually....

That was what i could think now my friends!

The shield wall formation is availible in M2TW so that might solve number 2

[antisocialmunky]

You're talking about this guy, right?

:p

I was thinking more of as a unit in the game that functions like an elephant but a rooster that pecks Romans to death and stuff.

[kaptainplanet]

And something more.. In EB II it will be very nice that the different soldiers will have a lot of options for clothing and face. So not all of the soldier in a unit will look the same. Great work:) I do not know if it is possible, but can their body types also be a bit different? Like, have more than one body type. So not all of them are similarly tall and build. Althought i have no idea abt the technical part, i guess that it is not that possible, since the skins get wrapped around the models? so more than one models will make the skins not fit correcly? Anyways, i thought to post it... :)

[TheLastDays]

Hello. I would like to see some things in EBII. I will list them followingly:

1. In the chart where you see the graphs of the factions, the vertical axis grows as big as it has in order to accomodate the faction with the highest score. For example, if Pontus has a treasury of 100000000 and all the other factions are poor, the graph will dwarf the lines of the other factions, and they will all be squeezed together. That makes sence because the graph also includes Pontus. But even if you unclick pontus and exlude it from the graph, the graph remains unchanged. You still cannot see the situation of the other factions, their liens are still pressed down all togetehr at the bottom of the graph. So, mayme it is possible to make the graphs represent the relative and not the absolute values? Meaning only the factions chosen to be included in the graph should be calculated. I hope what I wanted to say was clear, i am not very sure i communicated what i had in mind clearly....

2. It would be nice to see actual hoplite formations. Tight together, and each man covering his left comrade with his shield. Also packed together depth-wise, since the ones in the back were pushing their front one forward with their hoplon. The way they fight in EB is like they are fighting individually....

That was what i could think now my friends!

I don't think number 1 is possible, I guess the display of these graphs is hardcoded.