Support for Gun Control in US at its Lowest Level in More than 50 Years

[Husar]

I respect that Europeans have a very different view on the sanctity of criminal life, but my view is that if you're going to break into my house you had better be willing to suffer the consequences.

It's not that different really.

The difference for me is that I rather live in a country where 2 relatively harmless people want to steal my stuff and I don't need a gun to defend myself usually than in a country where 20 armed gunmen/knifemen would like to rob my stuff but I get a chance to shoot back. Neither guns nor self defense are illegal here after all. We're just don't worship and propagate either of them all the time whenever we get a chance.
We also seem to have less guys with knives who are after our families. I'm just saying there may be a connection.

[Husar]

By that I mean many Americans view Europe as dangerously self-absorbed and not willing to stand up for itself.

Well, a lot of people still blame us for looking after ourselves too much and standing up for our own interests too much.

It's funny when Americans think of Europeans as self-absorbed though, it reminds me of people putting their hand on their chest, singing the national anthem while looking at the star-spangled banner, bombing other countries to bring them democracy and the absolutely unshatterable belief that America are the good guys and that the rogue nations better admit and accept that and submit to America's hegemony and will.
Which, funny enough, runs contrary to the notion that everybody should strive to be in first place all the time, usually propagated by the same people.

Which brings us back to guns being the greatest tools on earth and everybody who doesn't like them hates freedom and is just begging for their family to get hurt, sometimes I get the impression that having a gun in your pocket also makes your body bullet-proof, because a good guy with a gun always wins a fight apparently, it never happens that a bad guy wins.

And no, I don't hate America or Americans, or guns.

As for the chronic apathy, you already have a congress that votes on tons of pork or how you call it all the time with lobbyists ruining every sensible law, how could it get any worse?
Oh yeah, you also have just one party with two logos and roughly 50% of Americans fighting to have their favourite logo on top.

[Beskar]

Fox News seems to agree with your sarcastic note, Husar.

[drone]

Fox News seems to agree with your sarcastic note, Husar.

She is correct, just for the wrong reasons...

[Husar]

Oh yes mister Cube, if you were to join the chat more often you'd find me rant about european issues quite often as well.

Just out here in the open I adopted the American idea of corporate identity and would never say anything bad about Europe, we're the greatest, we rule, our kindergarten kids could beat your marines and then conquer China without even using guns, man!
Europe is far from being ideal, it's just annoying when Americans try to tell us our countries would be more secure if we had a similar love-relationship to guns like they do.

In the same way it has to be annoying when I tell them that their country still is more violent and would be better if they didn't have that gun-culture.

But the difference is that I'm right and they're wrong.

For the US to ban guns now it's a bit late indeed, but maybe if you stopped embracing violence as your favourite means of "getting things done", there'd be less violence around overall.

Europeans trying to rely on the state and getting everything from the state is a myth anyway as you said yourself, not to forget that the Americans harping on that always assume that most Americans would completely rely on welfare if there were a little bit more than there is today as well.
So that effectively means most Americans would want to be more like Europeans but the good, american, hard-working folks are preventing that?

Now that would be an unfair view as well, my point is actually to vote democrat!
Because a donkey logo is more peaceful than an elephant logo.

As for our own faults and problems, well, we currently have a president who likes to threaten the press whenever they want to release an article about him that he feels uncomfortable with.
Then he promises unforeseen transparency and to answer 400 questions before taking that back and releasing nothing.

Arguably that has nothing to do with Americans loving violence and having power phantasies about guns like never before though.

In other news a man who got sentenced to a year on probation for not paying 44k€ in welfare for his employees didn't just walk out of court, he shot at the judge (and missed) and the prosecutor instead, killing the prosecutor. Happened in Bavaria. Link.
I'm not sure what that says about guns being a good thing, especially since his was illegally obtained.

As for the opinion of the german people on this, I actually read comments saying that it is understandable given how the german state harasses the small job creators with these insurance payments...
Sounds quite American, doesn't it?

How it's understandable to shoot a prosecutor doing his job over a monetary and political issue is beyond my neo-liberal euroweenie brain though. I think it's just nuts.

[rvg]

... it's just annoying when Americans try to tell us our countries would be more secure if we had a similar love-relationship to guns like they do.

It's not about guns. It's about freedom, specifically the freedom to possess and carry them. I do not own a gun, but if I wanted one I could walk into a sporting goods store today and pick me up a nice rifle. Just like that. This kind of freedom deserves all the praise it gets and should be defended at all costs.

[Tellos Athenaios]

It's about freedom, specifically the freedom to possess and carry them.

Funnily enough you have that same freedom in Europe as well. All you need to do in order to exercise such freedom is obtaining a licence which is not too difficult.

Us Europeans walk into a bar at age 16 and buy a drink, just like that. A matter of priorities, I guess.

[rvg]

Funnily enough you have that same freedom in Europe as well. All you need to do in order to exercise such freedom is obtaining a licence which is not too difficult.

Us Europeans walk into a bar at age 16 and buy a drink, just like that. A matter of priorities, I guess.

In Germany for example you have to get a separate permit for each firearm you're planning to buy. Oh, and you have to prove that you *need* a gun (i.e. being a hunter or a professional marksman). That's not quite free. That's almost freedom but I prefer to be free, not almost free.

[Husar]

What about your freedom to smoke weed? When was the last time you praised and campaigned for that? I know some do, but there is no National Weed Association yet.
We don't have that freedom here either mind you, but what makes the freedom to buy guns so much more precious when most people never really need them anyway (just like weed)?

And there's the argument we had before. What about the freedom to buy a working tank or F-22? The freedom to check everything your government does? There are quite a few things governments reserve for themselves almost exclusively and whether guns are one of them or not doesn't seem like the biggest freedom issue to me. As Tellos said, your 16 year olds aren't even free to buy beer while ours are.

And please don't say guns keep the government in check, your hear about as many complaints about congress than almost any comparable european institution.

The notable difference seems to be that despite guns, more Americans are really worried about someone coming into their home and harming them or their family.

Here we prefer to be free of such worries.

[Tellos Athenaios]

And, there's an awful damned lot more of you. Something like double our population? What gives Europe?

You are asking this in a gun thread?

That's perhaps the easy way out, but it prompts a few interesting questions:
1) What makes people choose to live in Europe?
2) And how is it that Europe can accommodate them all?

And:
3) How many more people do we need for the French telco's to start offering decent price/performance ?