retraining Highland Clansmen? What is the point?

[bunt0025]

I think building upgrades do get applied to all men in the unit. But I don't think provincial valour bonuses get added to existing troops, just new recruits (of course in the case of Highlanders it doesn't matter).

Yes, I've confirmed the provincial vs building line valor upgrade retraining anomaly. Provincial valor upgrades only apply to new men... whether a fresh unit altogether or retraining a partial strength unit... only new men get provincial upgrades.

Next, I'm curious if anyone has any experience with morale downgrades from retraining. If one trains with a morale boost, but then retains in another province that doesn't have the morale boost, does the unit's morale downgrade? I get different results.

[drone]

Next, I'm curious if anyone has any experience with morale downgrades from retraining. If one trains with a morale boost, but then retains in another province that doesn't have the morale boost, does the unit's morale downgrade? I get different results.

I assume the new troops recruited don't get the bonus, so the replacements might dilute to overall morale value. I haven't run any tests on this though, but I believe the unit morale is just an average of all the individual men in the unit (bonuses and morale from valour included). An individual soldier shouldn't lose value on a stat when retraining.

[bunt0025]

I assume the new troops recruited don't get the bonus, so the replacements might dilute to overall morale value. I haven't run any tests on this though, but I believe the unit morale is just an average of all the individual men in the unit (bonuses and morale from valour included). An individual soldier shouldn't lose value on a stat when retraining.

No, I'm saying if I take a whole unit of church trained militia sgts and then retrain them to get a weapon bonus, then they loose their morale bonus in the retraining. Essentially, the last morale equipped prov that the unit is trained in... reflects the PREvalor morale of the unit. Previous morale boosts disappear.

[Stazi]

AFAIK soldiers never loose their experience. If they are retrained the inexperienced recruits are added to the unit lowering average unit's valour. I don't know how morale works because it's hard to track. I always thought that when a unit is retrained, new soldiers are added and all veterans' statistics are upped to the level of the new ones (if necessary). If veterans have higher statistics, they stay unchanged. I don't have any proof of it but if you try to retrain full unit (recruited before province being upgraded with e.g. master level building), the unit's parameters are visibly upped to match the new, higher standard.

Attack and armor bonuses work differently. You can check it by trying to combine two units, one "naked" and other with some bonuses. If you add "naked" soldiers to the better equipped unit, all soldiers become better equipped. The bonuses in the better equipped unit are not lowered/averaged but visibly stay the same as before. You can use this little trick to upgrade some old but decimated veteran unit for free. Soldiers carry over their valour (and probably morale) and get new swords and armors for free :).

btw The cost of retraining equals the cost of a new unit, no matter how many soldiers are added. You can even retrain full unit (for armor, valour, etc. bonuses) and you still pay full cost.

[drone]

It's been said that the armor/weapon bonuses are attached to the unit commander, he controls the kit so adding new men from other units get the unit's current equipment. I don't think you can actually tell if this happens or if the unit card is just displaying what the original unit/commander was equipped with, but this has always been how I treat it in game.

Combined with the aforementioned retraining costs, I generally merge lesser equipped units into better ones to reinforce, then send the leftovers to get retrained with better kit. I tend to overlook morale though, since it's not readily visible.

[bunt0025]

You can take that unit of militia sgts and retain (whole) in another province. Then, check their stats, then frame/kill the general and recheck their stats.

I run into the issue with woodsmen, a lot. It is tempting to produce them in Lithuania but then retrain for iron weapon bonuses in Sweden due to their dirt cheap cost.

[Togakure]

Something I just did in a Danish campaign: I devoted Norway to producing the cheap +1 valor vikings and developed its infrastructure to include a Cathedral and Master Armorer. After producing each gold-shield viking, I sent them next door to Sweden, where I had developed the infrastructure to include a Master Weaponsmith. Retraining the gold-shield, +1 valor viking in Sweden resulted in a Gold-shield, Gold-sword +1 valor viking with the Cathedral morale bonus. Ridiculously effective unit. Dirt cheap and makes Huscarles look like peasants. Plus you can produce them throughout all eras.

Until I tried this I didn't do much retraining. Since, I've been taking a closer look at retraining possibilities. This technique works great for important, high-ranking heirs & generals too if you build a Royal Court in the provinces with the high-level armorer/weaponsmiths.

Bit of a necro but I figure any posting nowadays is a good thing, heh. Happy gaming.