Table for One

[a completely inoffensive name]

1. People don't know what they want in a partner and no one teaches them the tools to figure it out.
2. Our culture glorifies not being steady, not being with just one person.
3. People don't know what love is or how much work it takes to keep it going.
4. The current fight over what marriage is or isn't between same sex couples that are obviously in love and religious regressives who want to keep the definition pinned to the time period they feel comfortable with makes the entire institution seem more arbitrary to the youth.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Sex education in schools pretty much encourages everybody to run around having sex for fun.

This takes away a pretty big incentive to get married that people with more traditional values have.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Sex education in schools pretty much encourages everybody to run around having sex for fun.

This takes away a pretty big incentive to get married that people with more traditional values have.

I see nothing wrong with people having sex for fun as long as they understand the value of having a partner. I don't think that sex should be an incentive to get married in the first place. The incentive of marriage should be to have your love legally declared and recorded and to make a (theoretically) lifelong bond with another person. Sex shouldn't be entering your mind at all in that spot.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The incentive of marriage should be to have your love legally declared and recorded and to make a (theoretically) lifelong bond with another person. Sex shouldn't be entering your mind at all in that spot.

Really? I've heard a lot of people say they wouldn't marry someone they hadn't had sex with because they don't know if they would be 'compatible'. I know you are more 'liberal' so would you share that sentiment?

I don't see how you can separate marriage and sex.

It is a well documented fact that ignorance increases the likelyhood of teenage pregnancy.

Yeah, the only thing that increases it more is sex.

Sex education may not drastically reduce the incidences of underage sex by any means, but the education about how to deal with the consequences is absolutely vital.

I am alright with teaching people about contraception etc. What I don't like is that (in the UK education system at least) morals were also brought into it and kids were told to believe that having pre-marital sex is OK.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Really? I've heard a lot of people say they wouldn't marry someone they hadn't had sex with because they don't know if they would be 'compatible'. I know you are more 'liberal' so would you share that sentiment?

Hmm, that is tricky. I don't share that sentiment but that's because I think that having sex before marriage is something that couples should do to create a stronger emotional bond with each other. I don't think couples should abstain from sex before marriage and I think that when you are standing on the altar you are there because of love, not because you are excited about having sex. Marriage is a declaration, a promise, a commitment, not a ticket to the bedroom.

I don't see how you can separate marriage and sex.

Ummm, well marriage is about declaring your being in love. Sex is about having fun or creating emotional bonds with another person. They are closely related, but not the same thing.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Hmm, that is tricky. I don't share that sentiment but that's because I think that having sex before marriage is something that couples should do to create a stronger emotional bond with each other. I don't think couples should abstain from sex before marriage and I think that when you are standing on the altar you are there because of love, not because you are excited about having sex. Marriage is a declaration, a promise, a commitment, not a ticket to the bedroom.

Don't get me wrong, I agree completely that marriage should not be as you say a ticket to the bedroom. It would be a bit of a perversion of marriage if I met a nice girl and married her just for that (though oddly enough the way I'm going that might be the natural conclusion of my beliefs when it comes to it... no, be good! ). My version of Christianity seems to be inherently self-destructive in general.

But seriously, if you aren't 'getting some' on a casual basis, it gets you motivated to get out there more and look for somebody.

Ummm, well marriage is about declaring your being in love. Sex is about having fun or creating emotional bonds with another person. They are closely related, but not the same thing.

I think our different ideas on marriage probably come from our views on sex outwith marriage; neither are necessarily correct as its not exactly something that is striclty defined.

If for you sex is something that is normal outwith marriage, naturally it will be less connected to your idea of what marriage means. For people with my values that isn't true.

[Nowake]

This is a world wide phenomenon with very few exceptions people in cities have less children.

Couple of key factors:
Cost of housing. Unless you are comfortable living under the same roof as your in laws then you need your own place to be attractive to a mate.
Competition... And this is one of the factors that apply to countryside is TVs show idealistic lifestyles that people attempt to have. Soaps in rural India have dropped birth rates as women (and men) desire the good life.

Education. Higher educated women have less children. They also normally have to pay for that education. Meaning they start work later in life and work longer. They then expect a partner who is equal or better.

All cities are showing a slowing down of birth rates. Cities are energy efficient, vibrant, dangerous and exciting... Who needs kids? Becomes the norm. Japan is just one of the countries at the leading edge of this trend. Which as a high density (expensive housing), highly educated workforce who are focused on continous improvent fit the bill for reduced birth rates.

So do EU cities, look at the birth rates in Italy for instance. I'm even sure Greek cities have a declining birth rates.

Re-quoting Pape's response because it seems to have been overlooked, when in fact someone should've added /thread right after it was posted

[a completely inoffensive name]

But seriously, if you aren't 'getting some' on a casual basis, it gets you motivated to get out there more and look for somebody.

Looking for "somebody" or "a body"? Big difference there.

I think our different ideas on marriage probably come from our views on sex outwith marriage; neither are necessarily correct as its not exactly something that is striclty defined.

If for you sex is something that is normal outwith marriage, naturally it will be less connected to your idea of what marriage means. For people with my values that isn't true.

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from and I respect that.