I'm thinking Hungary, High, Expert

[RRMike]

That looks challenging but doesn't have the unit roster obsolesence that irritates me so much with they Byz. A blitz toward Constantinople seems to be in order but I haven't looked at the high starting position yet. I know it was one of the most challenging of the early campaigns that I've played. I think I'll take a look at the starting position and then think it over....

[drone]

The start position for MTW/VI vanilla can be found here. If you go to the provinces' pages, it will tell you what buildings exist at the start of each era.

[RRMike]

Thanks Drone. That would be helpful when I'm on my phone and can't just fire a game up and look.

I'm a little frustrated now. My daughter came in the office and started playing around with the PC (she's 2) and managed to turn the game off and load a game from the Byz campaign I just finished. The last autosave was a few years in the past so now I have a bunch to re-do. Grrrrr I was going to save it and turn it off but thought it would be fine...

[Gilrandir]

A blitz toward Constantinople seems to be in order but I haven't looked at the high starting position yet.

To reach Constantinople in high as the Hungarians you would have to conquer rebel Wallachia and Bulgaria (or just Bulgaria to save time) from Hungary and only then the dreamed-of Const. So it is not that blitzeable as with the Byz in high.

[RRMike]

I got there. Bulgaria then C. Cleaned up Serbia next then Wall. The Sicilians took Greece for a couple turns but I got it back and finally have the seas sealed off. The horde have been stuffed at the gates of C twice and the Turks are going back on the offensive a little. Won't last though. They lost Rum.

[Gilrandir]

The Sicilians seem to be a plague of yours! I wonder whether you would consider playing them some day. As the saying goes, if you cannot overcome the enemy, become its leader.

[RRMike]

The Sicilians seem to be a plague of yours! I wonder whether you would consider playing them some day. As the saying goes, if you cannot overcome the enemy, become its leader.

It's that I'm playing around in the Balkans there and they seem to be hardwired to want to get some of that territory. I was just thinking about trying the Sicilians out. I don't think I've ever played a game as them.

[Gilrandir]

I think the Sicilians will be a challenge in high - pent by the Pope in Naples so having to fight him to get out of the Apennines and invariably incurring an ex-com and then facing the Italians with their navy or having to rely on sea-borne invasions thus become subject to loyalty drops in overseas provinces when you clash with the Italians.

[RRMike]

I think it might be time to move on to one of the mods. I just started the Sicilian campaing, attacked Greece turn two, immediately moved to Constantinople and siege. Turn 4 or 5 grab Serbia with a second army. Turn 5-6 Const falls, move army to Bulgaria.

Now I have a border at Serbia-Bulgaria, Greece is still rebel but surrounded and will get taken in another couple turns and it's time to start to fortify Naples and build up a navy. Easy yet again. I think Sicily would be much harder in early. The rebels all over the balkans and C make it too easy to just jump over there and grab whatever you want. It would be much harder with a big Byz over there in C.

[Martok]

The Sicilians in Early are a lot of fun. They're one of my favorite factions, actually. Establishing a maritime trading empire with the occasional "colony" can be challenging but rewarding.

[RRMike]

The Sicilians in Early are a lot of fun. They're one of my favorite factions, actually. Establishing a maritime trading empire with the occasional "colony" can be challenging but rewarding.

I already started it and I like it so far. Money is tight and expansion isn't readily available but I think the search for suitable "colonies" will be a fun way to play for a change. Only thing I grabbed right away was Naples.

[Gilrandir]

I think it might be time to move on to one of the mods. I just started the Sicilian campaing, attacked Greece turn two, immediately moved to Constantinople and siege. Turn 4 or 5 grab Serbia with a second army. Turn 5-6 Const falls, move army to Bulgaria.

Now I have a border at Serbia-Bulgaria, Greece is still rebel but surrounded and will get taken in another couple turns and it's time to start to fortify Naples and build up a navy. Easy yet again. I think Sicily would be much harder in early. The rebels all over the balkans and C make it too easy to just jump over there and grab whatever you want. It would be much harder with a big Byz over there in C.

You seem to be taking easiness of the initial expansion for the general easiness of the campaign. Don't be so hasty in your conclusions. Never underestimate the power of the dark side of the force... sorry, the wiles of the AI on expert. In a couple of turns some navy-strong faction (Italians or the Byz) may declare a war upon you and sever the ties between the parts of your realm. So either the core Sicilian provinces or the Balkans (depending on the location of your king) will go rebel. Then a couple of crusades and an attack from the Turks - and you are done in.
And if you want more challenge you can try any faction in late (the Aragonese, for instance: their starting provinces are Aragon and - guess what - Sicily). Among the high factions I would recommend the French - in Europe squeezed between the English, the Aragonese and HRE and in Outremer desperately holding on to the Egyptian-harassed Tripoli and Antioch. I tried them twice - both times failed. Once because of the civil war and then was left heirless by the AI.

[RRMike]

You seem to be taking easiness of the initial expansion for the general easiness of the campaign. Don't be so hasty in your conclusions. Never underestimate the power of the dark side of the force... sorry, the wiles of the AI on expert. In a couple of turns some navy-strong faction (Italians or the Byz) may declare a war upon you and sever the ties between the parts of your realm. So either the core Sicilian provinces or the Balkans (depending on the location of your king) will go rebel. Then a couple of crusades and an attack from the Turks - and you are done in.
And if you want more challenge you can try any faction in late (the Aragonese, for instance: their starting provinces are Aragon and - guess what - Sicily). Among the high factions I would recommend the French - in Europe squeezed between the English, the Aragonese and HRE and in Outremer desperately holding on to the Egyptian-harassed Tripoli and Antioch. I tried them twice - both times failed. Once because of the civil war and then was left heirless by the AI.

I'm enjoying Sicily early right now. France late will be next.

And that sic high game was over. If I wanted to press it would be done by 1270. I was allied with the Italians and had my king in Constantinople so would keep those provinces if a CW broke out.

[Gilrandir]

I'm enjoying Sicily early right now. France late will be next.

I recommended French in high, not late. And in late any faction is challenging enough as you will be short of time to conquer all so probably you should go for a lesser victory.
Do you have VI add-on? Try it out if you do. Some VI factions seem unplayably difficult.

[RRMike]

I recommended French in high, not late. And in late any faction is challenging enough as you will be short of time to conquer all so probably you should go for a lesser victory.
Do you have VI add-on? Try it out if you do. Some VI factions seem unplayably difficult.

I just came back to check that since I looked at France late and it seemed a breeze. I figured I must have mis-read it. France High it is.

I don't really enjoy any of the VI stuff as the rosters are pretty small and get stale quickly. I really like having the variety of units and teching up for others and such.

[Gilrandir]

If you start on French in high you will have one four-star general in Outremer so it would be difficult to have two valiant enough armies to protect Tripoli and Antioch. I would advise you to appoint one of the one-star crusade-leftover unit leaders the governor of Normandy (which will add one star to his command rating). Well, perhaps, you want to go through it all without anyone putting in his spoke. Let me know if you want tips on this campaign and keep us informed about it anyway.

[RRMike]

No problem. Feel free. I'm usually better at the broad strokes and not so much the minutiae. I always forget which titles give stars until it's too late and it pops up there. I think I have a 2* guy over there anyway though. I still haven't hit "end turn" for the first time yet. I'm debating abandoning my ME holdings and pulling back to crete if I can get a boat build in time. Leave scorched earth behind so I can focus on the English.

I'll probably try to hold them. Just for the challenge, and to avoid the influence hit until I can capture a couple English provinces to offset. I have a feeling that an excommunication is coming though. I simply will not allow the Brits to survive for long to start pumping bills and longbows.

[Gilrandir]

While in Outremer I built a port in Cyprus and started producing urban militia and archers there and transported them to the continent. Then I teched up Antioch (as the more developed out of the two land provinces) and built an inn and horse trainers in Tripoli. Thus pretty soon I had everything in terms of infantry (both kinds of sergeants and men-at-arms) and some decent cavalry plus mercenaries. Also try to get the Byz as an ally.
In Europe I waited until my king was 5-6 years from dying and invaded Anjou and Brittany. Next move - sent a starred guy (a prince, very probably) from captured Anjou to Toulouse to head the defense and then invaded Aquitaine. If the ex-com did come it was soon over with the demise of my king (a strange coincidence - the Pope died the same year my king did). Well, it only sounds too easy but I did some tough battling - and you are looking for a challenge anyway. Plus you will have a problem with English fleet (if you produce your own - they already have some of it drifting around) and/or English marine landings. So I tried to conquer Wessex. After that the English are crippled, you can let them be for a while (and you will have one-province border with them which - if attacked from Mercia - is protected by a river with a single bridge). After that your main aim is HRE (with the renowned Switzerland developed enough to produce swiss halbs). NEVER attack Burgundy from Anjou, Ile-de-France or Toulouse - only rivers and bridges. I first captured Lorraine and from there attacked Burgundy. Then basically bite away province by province until you reach as far east as you want. Simultaneously develop ship-building facilities as your next aim will probably be Italians.
Well, I do not want to sound as I'm the SuperStrategic Teacher, so you can use the given advice at your discretion. And, probably, those tips come too late and you are far advanced beyond the point the tips stop.

[RRMike]

No, I've been busy the past couple days so haven't really started yet. I just got my governors named and taxes set and saved it so that I don't have to sift through all that stuff again and can just implement my strategy when I can sit down to play. I hadn't thought about allying with the Byz, as they are so weak in High, I was thinking of going with the Turks but I doubt they will. The English will get stomped all the way to Northumbria, just in case, maybe even Scotland so that I can get the two trade goods from NU. I was aware of the Burgandy/river issue from a few games as the HRE. I found them to be nicely challenging so have played them 4-5 times, but I didn't know about the Wessex river. My plan was to build tercouples and eventually swords from Antioch, Feudal sarges from Tripoli, since it has a keep and archers from crete since it has only a fort. With the one boat over there I may just wait on ship building facilities until I can go on the offensive against the Eggies (wishful thinking maybe? LOL), since they don't usually build much in the way of navy.

I will post up here when it gets underway and let you know if I'm liking it or not.

[Gilrandir]

The English will get stomped all the way to Northumbria, just in case, maybe even Scotland so that I can get the two trade goods from NU.

The English do not hold Scotland, so it will have to be Northumbria left for them.
As for the offensive against the Eggies, it is quite possible as soon as you have enough troops. In fact, I attacked after repulsing them several times and captured Syria and Palestine. You won't need more ships in that area, so don't bother about shipwright and the stuff.

[RRMike]

You are correct. My mistake. I haven't played the French so usually by the time I'm ready to kill the English, if they are still around, they have Scotland.

I have all of mainland France Unified and got the excomm. warning right after I took Aquatain. The rebels had Wessex under seige so I figured I'd wait for them to starve the garrison so I could take it from them rather than get excommunicated but the English relieved the garrison and I got auto-CF so I'm letting them be for now. They are broke anyway since I ransomed the king so I'm not worried about hordes of Bills and LBs any time soon. My border with Germany sucks and I haven't gotten the moxie yet to attack them since they outnumber me along the border so I'm stuck with a bunch of defensive armies everywhere.

The elmos have all of Iberia minus Navarre where the tiny remaining Spanish army sits, so I have to keep big armies in the south too. The elmos have 3 stacks in Aragon.

The Eggies declared war by sinking my boat in the English Channel of all places. The next turn I attacked with my 4* into Syria, got attacked from Edessa into Antioch and got attacked in Tripoli from Palestine. I repelled the attack on Antioch but lost at Tripoli. After moving the army from Syria with my 4* to Tripoli I was able to whip that army and ransom the Sultan as Palestine and Arabia had gone rebel. That gave me auto-CF with the eggies after I took Palestine to re-establish a border with them. They now have just Egypt and Sinai. Arabia is rebel.

I'm allied with pretty much everybody except the Germans and elmos. Which sucks since I think they both plan to attack. The Turks and Byz even sent emisarries after my war with the English and Egyptians were both over. I think I want to keep the ME quiet until after the horde arrives, I'd love for a nice strong Turk empire to take the brunt of any southward expansion strike and leave both sides weak for me to move in on.

I'm out of money right now. I'm almost ready to start getting some big income from some of my trade provinces but I've been hampered by that eggie fleet up north that kept bouncing around between the North Sea, Skag, and Baltic. I had to double up all my boats and that is expensive when I'm only trading with a few places. In the ME I have been building troop production stuff so I don't have the ports and trader buildings but I'm trying to get them built and move a few boats that I (stupidly) built in Telouise over there to establish a little network.

[Gilrandir]

Yo, RRMike! How are the French doing? Have you tackled HRE? Are Elmos making a nuisance of themselves? Are Eggies up to any mischief? I am eager for the news.

[RRMike]

The game is going good. In the ME, the Egyptians are done. I managed to corner them in Arabia but during the attack to pin them inside the stronghold and reduce their numbers the Sultan managed to get killed so I have to be on guard for a re-emergence. The Turks whipped the horde and now control everything ringing the Black and all of their initial holdings. My border is Antioch-Syria-Egypt.

In France things are going ok but I made a bit of an error. I attacked the English fleet, planning to attack into Wessex the following turn, and got an excomm warning right away. The Germans jumped me so I've taken the line from Province through Burgandy and Loraine to Flanders. I'm taking and giving back Friesland every turn waiting for an excomm warning about the HRE so that I will have 10 years to take the British Isles.

The Italians have been making life tough for the Elmos, taking and holding Morocco against multiple Jihads. The result is a civil war in Iberia and me in posession of Navarre and Aragon. The Argonese have re-emerged in Castille so Iberia is a mess. I'd like to consolidate that and North Africa to connect my empire but probably won't be able to do so with the Italians sitting in Morocco and me not having enough money to be willing to risk the trade disruption of a war with them yet. They have lots of boats, and although I'm sure I could eventually win control of the seas, I don't want to deal with it yet.

What are you doing? I'm starting to feel like that guy at the party that does all the talking. Have you been playing any? Maybe we should fire up a parallel campaign and compare notes on our differing experiences/strategies or something.

[Gilrandir]

I'm taking and giving back Friesland every turn waiting for an excomm warning about the HRE so that I will have 10 years to take the British Isles.

The excom warning may never arrive since the pope will watch for you not to attack the English turning a blind eye onto anything else. So, I assume you are waiting for the ten years term to expire to get a brand new "don't-you-dare-to-touch-HRE" warning. Well, it may not arrive either as the warning issuing depends on the size of the perpetrator and the victim. If the perpetrator (I mean you) is not larger (in terms of the number of provinces) than the victim the pope may disregard your bickerings. So you should check how large HRE is.
As for my doings, I don't have time for serious campaigning right now. Moreover, I haven't decided who to play yet. I'm vacillating between Mercians in VI and HRE high expert. But either way the campaign is likely to start in early spring. You know I'm a kind of a person who is quickly bored with any lasting campaign and needs to get really hungry for it before starting a next one.
I liked your party-guy comparison , but I more inclined to view myself as an old geezer who likes to talk of sex.. oops! of MTW more than pactice it.

[RRMike]

The excom warning may never arrive since the pope will watch for you not to attack the English turning a blind eye onto anything else. So, I assume you are waiting for the ten years term to expire to get a brand new "don't-you-dare-to-touch-HRE" warning. Well, it may not arrive either as the warning issuing depends on the size of the perpetrator and the victim. If the perpetrator (I mean you) is not larger (in terms of the number of provinces) than the victim the pope may disregard your bickerings. So you should check how large HRE is.
As for my doings, I don't have time for serious campaigning right now. Moreover, I haven't decided who to play yet. I'm vacillating between Mercians in VI and HRE high expert. But either way the campaign is likely to start in early spring. You know I'm a kind of a person who is quickly bored with any lasting campaign and needs to get really hungry for it before starting a next one.
I liked your party-guy comparison , but I more inclined to view myself as an old geezer who likes to talk of sex.. oops! of MTW more than pactice it.

Grrrr. I just had a big reply typed up and hit the wrong button and lost it.

Yes, I was waiting on the 10 years to expire. I never make note of the year I get the warnings. I got one for HRE and killed the english off to Scotland where they are under siege. They have a barren Ireland to retreat to, which will make them irrelevant. The Argonese were mean to my emmisary so I took Castille and finished them off again and am getting ready to kill off the Elmos.

After that I may just sit behind my lines of Flanders-Provence and Syria/Antioch and tech up to SAP (I did send one little army over to snatch Switz.) to try them out once Late begins.

[Gilrandir]

In case you kill the English king you are likely to face their resurrection one of these turns (the same applies to the Aragonese), so watch out. And HRE isn't so mighty as it may look. A couple of decisive victories (no prisoners taken) and their huge empire will tumble down.

[RRMike]

In case you kill the English king you are likely to face their resurrection one of these turns (the same applies to the Aragonese), so watch out. And HRE isn't so mighty as it may look. A couple of decisive victories (no prisoners taken) and their huge empire will tumble down.

The English king did die in Scotland. They re-emerged in Ireland with 4 stacks of irrelevancy. I'm keeping the loyalty of all conquered provinces at 200 so I should be able to avoid any other re-emergences. I think the danger zone is <130 or 140%.

The Turks are so concerned with my huge armies in Syria/Antioch that the horde are on the offensive and now own the steppe from Kiev/Lithuania to kazhar. I like seeing them keep each other busy while I sit and tech up. Germany owns only Friesland, the rest being rebel after I took some away. The poles made a brief appearance back from the dead, conquered all the German rebel provinces and it all promptly went back rebel when their king managed to get himself killed somehow.

The Italians are a constant. Not doing much since they lost morocco to the Elmos. They had a brief war with the Sicilians which netted them Naples and me Sicily. They also bribed rebels in Denmark so my Sweden borders them there. The Danes are stuck in Norway broke.

So it's me from provence-Flanders, around north Africa to Syria/Antioch. The Italians with their initial holdings plus Naples/Denmark and lots of boats and enough $ to have some decent units. The horde on the steppe and the Turks from me up to Georgia and Moldavia Poland carpathia area. The Huns are still in there a little but not a factor.

Sorry for typos. On my phone.

[Gilrandir]

The English king did die in Scotland. They re-emerged in Ireland with 4 stacks of irrelevancy. I'm keeping the loyalty of all conquered provinces at 200 so I should be able to avoid any other re-emergences. I think the danger zone is <130 or 140%.

They say it is < 120%, but I believe that if a faction made up its mind to re-appear at least in one province it will do irrespective of the loyalty rating. Perhaps, someone may correct me, but you can't keep a vanished faction down just by maintaining high loyalty of its former provinces.

[Trapped in Samsara]

They say it is < 120%, but I believe that if a faction made up its mind to re-appear at least in one province it will do irrespective of the loyalty rating. Perhaps, someone may correct me, but you can't keep a vanished faction down just by maintaining high loyalty of its former provinces.

Hi

Obviously this is anecdotal, but I hardly ever suffer reappearances in my own provinces. I put this down to paying obsessive attention to their loyalty scores - anything less that 150 is a cause for concern for me. I always construct the happiness buildings, and as soon as I am able to I'll deploy a spy, a priest and an assassin on permanent assignment. I also pay a good deal of attention to the governor's traits, and I will forgo max income for a decade or so if I deem it essential to install a tyrant to suppress any disaffection. It goes without saying that the province's faith must be that of the the righteous and godly.

What I'm leading up to is that I do believe that a province's loyalty score is at least highly significant, if not decisive, in the calculation of whether a reappearance will take place in a particular province.

Best regards
Victor

Sapere aude
Horace

[Gilrandir]

What I'm leading up to is that I do believe that a province's loyalty score is at least highly significant, if not decisive, in the calculation of whether a reappearance will take place in a particular province.

I agree, but what I was trying to say is:
Factions tend to reappear. Whatever you may do they will. Even if you keep your provinces 200% loyal they will. Even if your provinces are superloyal one of them will go the resurrected faction. It is true that your superloyal provinces will not go over to that faction but will stay with you. Yet, one lost province is inevitable.