B-17 mass formations during WW2.

**Kurando** · 01-10-2012, 13:04

Years ago I heard one of the most interesting things I've ever heard from someone who was in the service and stationed in Europe during the 1940's. This man, who was a friend of my mom's told me about a phenomenon that I'd never heard of before, and he'd seen it firsthand.

He said that when he was sent home from Italy they sent him back to the UK to train new troops and he was posted near the spot where the B-17 Bombers would muster in mass airborne formations before they headed to the continent. I'm not sure how many aircraft he was talking about, but there must have been plenty; check this out:

He said that because of the noise and disruption of the B-17's four Curtiss-Wright engines (up to 3500 horsepower per aircraft) that when you'd look up at the sky, the whole freakin sky would be going berserk, similar to the concussion blast that you'd see on the ground during Arc Light. He said it looked totally hypnotic, as if the whole sky from one horizon to the other was being ripped apart by the concussion of the engines!

**Gregoshi** · 01-10-2012, 16:09

I wonder if there are any pictures of this?

**TinCow** · 01-10-2012, 16:40

Well, if he was originally stationed in Italy, that means the date was at least late 1943, probably 1944 at a minimum as I doubt many people were shipped 'home' from Italy in 1943 unless they had been injured. During that time frame, the USAF was regularly mounting raids from the UK with 500-1000 aircraft. I have never heard of any kind of concussive effect from aircraft, but I would imagine that, on a clear day, the heat shimmer coming off that many aircraft engines flying in such a tight formation would probably make the entire sky around them seem to move.

**Vladimir** · 01-10-2012, 19:08

Well the contrails themselves were impressive. I wonder how the B-24 compared.

**Kurando** · 01-11-2012, 09:36

Well, if he was originally stationed in Italy, that means the date was at least late 1943, probably 1944 at a minimum

His name was Wymond Bryant he was originally from Mission City British Columbia and was a member of the Devils Birgade 1st Special Service Force. He was never wounded as far as I know, he said he was at Anzio. I think it might have been 1944 because I asked him about D-Day, and he said he wasn't there because he was training new troops in England at the time, and then told the story about the air concussion.

But I have no idea how he got to the UK after Italy or why he was sent there. At the time he was a radioman and was training new troops in mortor use because he had been an artilliaryman before he went into the 1st Special Service Force.

He'd apparently had a bad marriage in the 1950's and his wife had burned all of his possessions from the war era, what a crime eh? But in the 1990's when I met him he still had one very cool old studio picture of himself in a US Army uniform with the Devils Birgade patch on the shoulder and lots of neat stuff from the special forces association in the US. The Green Berets and groups like that were always trying to get him and the other guys from his old unit to go to the US for dinners and functions like that. He said some of his friends had made a lifestyle of it in their old age, but he did want to do it.

Getting into the Devils Birgade was an interesting story too. He said some Army NCO's just showed up one day at the Work Point Barracks in Victoria when he was stationed there earily in the war and asked if anyone had experience as a hunting or fishing guides and he told them that he'd been a fishing guide before the war, and then a few nights later they came and got him and a few others from the barricks at like 2:00AM and snuck them out and sent them to the US for training, but at first they had absolutely no idea what was going on.

He was radioman in the 1st Special Service Force, and said a few more really interesting things. One thing I thought was cool is that he said because he was always toating big spools of wire and stuff that he never carried a rifle. Instead he had a 1911 .45 pistol that had somehow been jerry-rigged to hold an extra-long mag that was made from two normal 1911 mags which had been welded together. He said that he used to carry a stick in his pocket and when there was shooting going on he'd hold 1911 at the hip, put the stick in the trigger, and then work the trigger rapidly with the stick. Sounded like a pretty crazy idea to me, but that's the way he did it. I can't imagine that is wasn't too accurate though.

He told me that one time he almost got killed laying phone wire on the ground as they were persuing the retreating German forces. He was ordered to lay wire to a forward position and he came to a small foot bridge. He said he was just getting ready to take the spool of wire across and he looked at it and said "damn that would be a good place to put a mine" and so he got up on the railing of the bridge and walked over on the railing. A little bit later it turned out that two regular army guys were following behind had tried to cross the same bridge and both were killed by the mine. The C.O. later asked Bryant how he'd gotten across the bridge without tripping the booby trap he said "I used my head, and they didn't use their heads."

Another thing he said was that when they were at some Monestary in Italy he and his friends noticed that there was plaster around a brick alcove in the Monestary's basement and it looked out of place. So they took some sledge hammers and knocked the wall down and found these massive vats of wine that the monks were trying to hide back there. Then he and his friends took all the bottles they find and filled them up and carted them away in a wheelbarrow.

I asked him about German Paratroops and he said he'd never encountered any firsthand. I've never really heard much about Italian Forces in WW2 being worth much, but he told me that he had a lot of respect for a group called the "San Marco Marines" whoever they were?

Absolutely fascinating about the sky concussion with the B-17's though; I was very much convinced that he was describing a real phenomenon. He said speciffically that it was like the concussion wave that you see from airborne footage of bombing runs when the bomb explodes and that blast wave fans out from the epicenter, but instead happening in the air and observable from the ground. Sounds to me like he was one of a very very very few people who witnessed an amazing phenomenon which occurred due to causes and conditions which will likely never be seen again in human history.

**Fisherking** · 01-12-2012, 08:21

As a kid I was around a lot of prop driven planes, including a B-17. Yes I am old. lol

In high school we were right next door to the Confederate Air Force, when they were in Harlingen Texas. They even parked 4 of them on our parade grounds when we had a VIP visit.

I do remember something like a heat shimmer coming off them as they warmed up on the ground.

I am sure as they assembled in tight formations at lower altitude before moving up and out that 1000 big bombers would put off some heat and shock waves in the air.

I am afraid that all those I knew who flew or worked on those planes in the war are gone now.

I remember very little of all the things they told me anymore, but it must have been an amazing sight.

**drone** · 01-12-2012, 16:21

If you had brought this up a couple of months ago, I might have gotten you an eyewitness account. My grandfather flew B-17s and B-24s, not in Europe so no mass formations, but he probably would have known of the phenomenon. We'll be taking his ashes up in the CAF's B-24 sometime in the spring, I'll ask the pilot if he knows of this.