Reworking the mercenary and factional status...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

The thing with Epeiros is this however. When Pyrrhus controlled Makedonia, he took the title of King of Makedonia rather than making Macedon part of Epeirote territory. Essentially in my opinion, his faction at that point would be Makedonia rather than Epeiros, probably since the title being King of Macedon held much more weight than that of Epeiros. I don't think Epeiros should have factional access to Thracians because of this.

Also I don't think that mercenaries in our sense would be the same as mercenaries in real life. It includes those sure, but also would include soldiers who would not necessarily be common in the armies of said factions. The labels of Factional and Mercenary are themselves misleading.

[Arjos]

So in our time frame Roma was mostly a republic, imperial units are so unusual they become mercenary? XD
Armoured Keltoi were so unusual they gotta be mercenaries lol

Anyway Pyrros holding two titles and one supersiding the other makes me laugh, he was Basileus, how much land he held that was up to his conquests...
Frankly with both him and Gonatas claiming Makedonia: gah :P

If the consensus is to follow such gamey definitions, I just have no clue what unit is what...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Bah, its hard to explain what I mean but when I say uncommon I mean that typically you would not find such units in an army, it would only be while campaigning outside the homelands, in nearby regions, etc.

I'm actually for gameyness in this instance. The only real difference between Makedonia and Epeiros if we followed through on this would be a few units here and there (Hetairoi, etc.) and the fact that Epeiros gets way more choices than Makedon. I understand your approach Arjos, but I feel we are better off leaving more clear divisions between factions rather than making them more similar.

[Arjos]

There are italic, illyrian, thessalikoi, thorakitai, hysteroi: lots of differences...
We are speaking of Epeiros and Makedonia, not two regions with the world between them XD

Those Thraikioi units are just perfect for Thracians and Paeonians...

[The Celtic Viking]

There are italic, illyrian, thessalikoi, thorakitai, hysteroi: lots of differences...
We are speaking of Epeiros and Makedonia, not two regions with the world between them XD

Those Thraikioi units are just perfect for Thracians and Paeonians...

Going only by the examples you've made here, you will notice though that this is 8 units for Epeiros and 2 units for Makedonia, one of which is a phalanx and the other currently being a 100-mnai-and-2-morale-less version of Mollosson Agema...

[Arjos]

Going only by the examples you've made here, you will notice though that this is 8 units for Epeiros and 2 units for Makedonia, one of which is a phalanx and the other currently being a 100-mnai-and-2-morale-less version of Mollosson Agema...

I'll just delete all this, the consensus is gamey pick and choosing and that's well up to your moods XD

[Kival]

I'll just delete all this, the consensus is gamey pick and choosing and that's well up to your moods XD

Gah, you got moody here. Let's evaluate things first. I think your definition is problematic but Robin's one is too gamey for me.

[vartan]

Also I don't think that mercenaries in our sense would be the same as mercenaries in real life. It includes those sure, but also would include soldiers who would not necessarily be common in the armies of said factions. The labels of Factional and Mercenary are themselves misleading.

This, basically. Thanks for bringing this up Rob, because I was foolish enough to assume people approach the labels the same way I do (and perhaps you as well, apparently). That is, these are labels. They are categorically different for administrative purposes in the case of EBO, not different for purposes one would find in reality (i.e., representing hired warriors). These labels are here so you as a player know when you have or have not surpassed the limit on that unit type (i.e., merc).

[Yavana]

Agriankioi mercs? NO WAY!!!;o Your list just nerfed epeiros so hard robin its beyond redemption...;o

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Agriankioi mercs? NO WAY!!!;o Your list just nerfed epeiros so hard robin its beyond redemption...;o

Agriankioi were loyal to Makedonia, not necessarily to Epeiros. And I made units like Samnites factional. Samnites are better than Agriankioi. Anyway, don't bother with that list since we haven't decided anything as of yet.

[Kival]

And I made units like Samnites factional. Samnites are better than Agriankioi.

Depends. Against heavily armoured units, Ariankioi are of course better than Samnites. The Samnites also suffer under the use of the kopis... still I have no problem with that.

[The Celtic Viking]

Yeah, because of the kopis I'd pick the Agrianians over Samnitici Milites any day: they've ap, they're cheaper, they've better morale, and did I point out that the kopis is crap?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Bah, there is hardly a noticeable difference between the kopis and a celtic longsword, a weapon that is a proven winner.