Is EB the best mod for any game of all time?

[I_damian]

I was just thinking that if PC game mods had an award ceremony like the Oscars or Baftas, or something which ranks them every year based on whatever, would EB still stand as the biggest, best and most proffessional mod of all time for any game ever? I mean, plenty of PC games have some absolutely amazing mods, such as the "complete" mods for the 3 STALKER games for example, but I'm pretty sure that EB is just right at the top of the pile.

What does everybody else think?

[SoFarSoGood]

Yes definitely.

[moonburn]

depends on the type of game i´ve seen a very interesting sims mods and also gta mods where they create complete new cities and enviroments but what may regard strategy games mods about total war most defently eb1 is right there and lets hope eb2 will be soon enough up for voting

[fallen851]

EB is really good, but I think it overtaxes the engine of RTW too much, and CTD's are what stops EB from being great.

Counterstrike and DOTA are clearly #1 and #2 in terms of community made game mods in my eyes, and certainly in terms of popularity too. They both spawned money making products and have been played by millions. EB isn't in close in that respect.

[Brennus]

No......... EBII is coming.

[vartan]

Is the question a serious one? I only ask because clearly the answer could not be a more obvious 'yes'.

On the more serious side, if we were to create a metric for judging cross-genre video game mods (perhaps even cross-platform?), what would it be composed of? How are we quantifying otherwise difficult to measure aspects of games?

[helenos aiakides]

Eb is the best game I have ever played full stop. It has ruined all other games for me, because I need the depth which no other games provide.

[huth]

there's no something like "best mod evah", just like there's no best game... All those stupid "best evah" rankings are just meaningless

[helenos aiakides]

Not only "best mod evah", but best game evah!

[I_damian]

Is the question a serious one? I only ask because clearly the answer could not be a more obvious 'yes'.

Well, I don't personally know of any mods that are better but I thought maybe other people did. I haven't played EVERY mod you know...

[Blxz]

there's no something like "best mod evah", just like there's no best game... All those stupid "best evah" rankings are just meaningless

I wrote something similar in this thread before deciding that ripping into some fans having a bit of fun wasn't in the best spirit of EB. Having said that though, I still agree with your sentiment. It is a pretty meaningless thing but I am sure it passes the time for them.

[vartan]

*cough*Cynics too lazy to develop metrics for awarding accomplished mod teams.*cough*

(Audio and Visual art fields do it all the time here in Hollywood. They're no more entitled in their endeavors than those developing video games.)

[Blxz]

*cough*Cynics too lazy to develop metrics for awarding accomplished mod teams.*cough*

(Audio and Visual art fields do it all the time here in Hollywood. They're no more entitled in their endeavors than those developing video games.)

Well, we could blantantly copy the same criteria used in the oscars, etc. Most amount of money secretly 'donated' to the organiser of the ceremony wins. Second place goes to the organisers wife's favourite contender. In the case of music we simply let Kanye decide based on his own infallible logic...after he lets us finish of course.

[Ibrahim]

I will have to second the suggestions people have voiced, and say that it is really up to one's taste.

EDIT: this is not to dispute or deny the excellent quality and effort that is part of, and went into, the making of Europa Barbarorum.

[I_damian]

I will have to second the suggestions people have voiced, and say that it is really up to one's taste.

I'm not sure I agree with that. For example I absolutely can't stand a single song that Elvis ever wrote or sang, but there's no denying his awesomeness based on the impact he made and the amount of fans. Same goes for Citizen Kane. I can't stand it, I don't know what people see in it, yet it's widely regarded as the best film of all time or at least in the top 5.

So if I were to put myself in the mind of someone who hates EB, it would still be difficult to deny the fact that it's one of the biggest and most proffessional quality mods for any game, ever - if not THE no.1.

[SoFarSoGood]

I'm not sure I agree with that. For example I absolutely can't stand a single song that Elvis ever wrote or sang, but there's no denying his awesomeness based on the impact he made and the amount of fans. Same goes for Citizen Kane. I can't stand it, I don't know what people see in it, yet it's widely regarded as the best film of all time or at least in the top 5.

So if I were to put myself in the mind of someone who hates EB, it would still be difficult to deny the fact that it's one of the biggest and most proffessional quality mods for any game, ever - if not THE no.1.

Basicly you have to decide how it's decided? I mean more people have probably seen Star Wars (for example) than Citizen Kane and if you had an opinion poll no doubt Star Wars would beat Citizen Kane for 'best film' by popularity. Is that how things should be decided though? Because more people think the earth is round it must be? Used to be that more people thought the earth was flat... did the 'reality' change or just peoples understanding? Clearly in the case of the earth being flat the latter.

Is EB better than Rome TW and the other mods of it might be a better question as if you're not into any of the Total War series then clearly the question doesn't matter or make sense (since all TW would be a waste of time). On that basis I say yes it's the best TW mod there is of any of the games.

[Blxz]

People do NOT know about this mod to the scale you are talking. It is a big thing in some circles but don't make the mistake in thinking that because you like it that suddenly makes it an undeniable gold classic art piece. Its a niche mod of a (pretty popular I'll admit) strategy game and you would be hard pressed to find people who can appreciate it for its innate 'goodness' without having actually played it and enjoyed the gameplay first.

[vartan]

Stating the obvious here, but there is a categorical difference between what you like or appreciate, and the objective measure of how a video game mod performs in terms of gameplay, replayability, reward/punishment, balance, etc.

[Frtigern]

There's no other game that stimulates both my mind and my emotions. I enjoy the strategy of exploiting certain regions, building armies, and attacking enemies for specific goals just as much as I enjoy to see the fruits of my labor actualized on the battlefield up close and personal. It makes me care about a single company of soldiers making it through the fight, whether they be levies or the general's own cavalry. I enjoy the variety and the uses of every unit for different jobs. I enjoy that as I move to new lands, new and unique kinds of warriors with different weapons and formations can be recruited, and this is true of their mercenaries too, unlike vanilla RTW where units seemed so generic and simple, and where differences between faction units were superficial. I am and will always enjoy the company level (or cohort) style of combat and I am not bothered that I can only bring 20 of them, or ~3000 per battle. I realize that computers and game engines have limits, especially from 2006. I enjoy seeing generals mature and develop and am always surprised by the traits and ancillaries they pick up. I am not bothered that I don't have control of it. Sometimes it makes me want to foster those traits that I didn't expect or want and make them become what they were destined to be. If they are truly awful I let destiny show them their course as they bravely charge at a stronger enemy, falling in the process. That's why I think EB is the best TW mod out there.

[Blxz]

Stating the obvious here, but there is a categorical difference between what you like or appreciate, and the objective measure of how a video game mod performs in terms of gameplay, replayability, reward/punishment, balance, etc.

Were you replying to me?

If so, then I don't think that EB can rank as the 'best' if it is possible to even determine that. To be honest, I love EB. Second only to Europa Universalis mods, EB is the game I have played the most and enjoyed the most in my life. I still don't agree with I_damian's assessment that EB is just 'innately good' and that the fact can be appreciated by anyone even if they don't like these kinds of things.

In regards to the criteria you set I think EB would rate even worse. EB is based to be as historically accurate as possible within the engine's limits so things like balance are fairly poor. While this works in-game it is worth nothing that many units are almost required to be re-costed for multiplayer not to mention the in-ability to control the AI and its crazy recruitment of elites. Then of course there are considerable instability issues with persistent crashes on many systems.

I don't mean to unduly criticise EB and I understand what can be controlled by the modders and what can't but I want to be as honest as possible here. We on this forum love the game but I think comparing the mod to Elvis or Citizen kane or anything else out there is insane.

EDIT: I didn't even want to get drawn into this thread. While I think the whole point of it is stupid I can still appreciate that it is just some fans having a good time. I don't mean to come and try and shit on your parade. Also, for the record I think elvis is rubbish compared to EB but that's only an opinion influenced by my upbringing and interests.

[Grimmy]

I'm holding my vote until I get to try Europa Barbarorum 3 for Rome Total War 2, which should be released in about 15 years if current production pace holds true.

[stratigos vasilios]

IMO yes. Well, until EBII comes out it is.

[mlc82]

I could not have said it better than Frtigern above.

It is my personal favorite game mod to date. I was a die-hard Medieval Total War (original) player, and HATED Rome when it first came out due to it having mainly generic and underpowered factions (besides Rome and Carthage) with silly units, battles in fast-forward (kill rates and movement increased to where infantry became roid-raging berzerkers on speed, and any sort of heavy cavalry just steamrolled everyone else on the battlefield), and of course, RTW's omission of any sort of AI at all, unlike Medieval 1's which wasn't brilliant but required you pay attention and would actively try to beat you in battles (by using units to their strengths- I still play with it today, so I don't think this is just nostalgia speaking).

EB drove my already strong interest in ancient history to a new level by bringing it to life, and the aspects of the game that irritate me are the fault of the Rome engine itself (still awful AI in general that needs to be baby-sat with money and unit cheats, nonexistant diplomacy on any campaign difficulty over "medium", etc), and not anything to blame on or caused by EB itself- the mod has turned what I found to be an awful game into an "ancient era toybox" that brings my imagination to life unlike many games ever have. I've been playing EB regularly since it was v0.8 or so, and won't stop til EB2 arrives, functioning AI (surely, all the better Medieval 2 mods have one) and all.

To sum things up: For me EB is amazingly impressive as is, but for it to have turned what I saw as an abysmal and disgraceful sequel to one of my favorite games, into yet another of my favorite games, really says something. To claim it is the "best" mod is of course subjective, but to me it is.

[Power2the1]

Well, as an EB member, I have a bias of course j/k, but I could not read this thread and not give a nod to The Grey Wolves 3 (GWX 3) for Silent Hunter 3.

What EB is to the ancient world genre in PC gaming, Grey Wolves is to the submarine genre. Besides that, I cannot think of any other mods I've personally tried out that I would include in this, except perhaps the Utrapack/Dark Blue World mod for IL-2 Sturmovik 1946.

There are so few mods that satisfy the need for depth, learning, and history out there. If you enjoy experiencing true history as it was meant to be, get those games (they are very cheap) and try those mods out - I can guarantee you'll not be disappointed as they truly are of EB quality!

[Jive]

Best mod? Well, let's see:

First time I played it (as Romanii) the 1.2 patches weren't properly installed so after countless hours replaying battles I gave up on it. But somehow I couldn't shake the EB "bug" and the second time I completed the Romanii campaign despite all the crashes and giant trees. For good measure, I completed a Baktrian campaign (mercifully fewer CTD's) as well. Alas, a subsequent Lusotanni effort didn't prosper so it was retirement time again.

Finally I installed the patches properly and had another go with the Lusotanni. It was smooth as silk at first, but as the campaign lengthened end-of-turn crashes began to appear more and more frequently, until replaying several times from two years before couldn't correct the problem (Summer, 175 BCE). This was truly exasperating, and I vowed to give up EB forever. In a fit of pique I uninstalled and deleted everything EB.

That was two months ago (RL-wise). Yet now I find myself downloading EB again, with the intention of using the BI execute to enable amphibious AI landings and cut down (drastically, I hope) on the CTD's.

Moral of the story? There isn't a single game--let alone mod--I've played for which I've gone to so much trouble. Either I'm a masochist or the EB team have done such a terrific job that anyone interested in ancient history, outstanding simulation, and a lust for combat will find it irresistible. In short, EB rocks.

Update EB fans: Incredible news! The Lusotanni campaign wasn't lost after all (it pays sometimes to be a digital ignoramus, eh?), and now it's 174 BCE--could it be the terminal CTD has been overcome? After a single turn-ending CTD and a rash of battle crashes it's been fine. Plus the AI is doing amphibious invasions, as promised. Life is wonderful.

[Westworld]

Yes, EB is awesome. Thank you guys for making it.

[seleucid empire]

If RSII had a map as big as EB and its battles were the same then I would vote that instead but it doesnt so yes, EB IS THE BEST MOD of rtw

The thing I love the most about EB is the amount of time that the modders spent on making the units balanced and battles longer. Its not like RTW or most other mods where they didnt bother to change the battle mechanics and where levy units have absolutely no chance against elites and break after a few seconds of fighting (vanilla urban cohorts vs greek militia hoplites comes into mind)

Ive tried Roma Surrectum II twice and I still have those crappy battles where I charge 3 units of medium cav into the face of a unit of their infantry and they just disintegrate immediately. RSII battles feel just like vanilla battles to me.

They also have a weird starting position for many factions (e.g. The Seleucids start with their main army and Antiochus III at Raphia facing a Egyptian stack which has better quality troops. There are 2 more fullstacks behind the first Egyptian stack so after a battle you have to retreat since the casualties from the first battle are so high. I mean what the hell is the point of that?)

Also in Roma Surrectum II the economy is absolutely B.S. As Sparta you start with only one city but you make 15 000 a turn even though you have a fullstack army and half a stack guarding the city. wow really? I didn't realize sparta was a economic powerhouse????????????? You fight about 2 battles every turn aswell from the beginning.

With Eb, you have to slowly build up an army which your economy can actually support and if you are careful, you can use this single army to conquer vast amounts of land (more realistic i think). Since the battles are slow paced and the lethality of units has been toned down, you suffer less casualties per battle as long as you use clever tactics and keep your army intact.

Also population growth in RSII is just like vanilla. Exterminate a large city and they begin to riot after only 10 turns

So yes in terms of everything EB is the best

[Rovert]

yes best mod ever , i have played mods for almost every game i have ever played , EB wins hands down.