Brennus Big Book (help needed)

[Brennus]

Hello all!

For a few years now, ever since I read Leo Tolstoy's work, I have wanted to try and write something even remotely similar to the epics "War and Peace" and "Anna Karenina" (if you have never read either of these books by the way it is an experience you should try at least once). However each time I began to seriously think about the idea something would invariably stop me; either I would lack the determination, start another round of education etc. Usually self doubt would simply set in and I would shelve the idea. However this morning I read this story in the news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18267716

This, coupled with my current lack of progress elsewhere in life, has finally made me commit to the idea of giving writing a shot.

"Brennus" Moros says "This is the EB forum, stop spamming"

Well, my idea is tied to EB. I want to try and write a social critique in the same way Tolstoy did, but instead of setting it in the Napoleonic Wars I want to set mine in the Gallic Wars. I want to try an present a critique of imperialism, capitalism, mis-guided nationalism and the consumerism (yes I am a lefty) through the eyes of the individuals involved. What I need help with is character names. I need names for Romans, Numidians, Germans and Celts and others, especially non-aristocratic names.

So far my main character list is as such ("" Indicates provisional name, yet formalised):

Julius Caesar: Little character development required here.

Vercingetorix: Who will be known by a different name until 52BC in an interesting plot twist.

Commios: Who I intend to paint as treacherous, pragmatic, determined, slightly psychotic and highly charismatic.

"Marcus": A Roman legionary and the main Roman protagonist who joins the army full of Roman ideology.

"Jugurtha": Numidian auxilliary who becomes disgusted by Roman greed.

"Cogidubnus": A self doubting failed Druid... much development needed here.

"Zalmoxis": A Dacian girl who marries "Marcus".

Dumnorix: Strong willed but badly organised Aedui chieftain.

"Titus": hardened veteran centurion... more development again.

"Cartimandua": Strong willed Gallic/British woman with oppressive, aristocratic family who rebels and eventually marries Commios.

Marc Anthony: Slightly dim, highly charismatic, extremely loyal, driven more by his loins than his brain.

Ambiorix: A practical joker and ferocious leader.

Ariovistus: Blissfully ignorant of Roman power

Cassivellaunus: I intend to portray as almost a parody of Churchill as a homage to the Asterix creators Goscinny and Uderzo.

Celtillus: Vercingetorix father, executed by the Arverni council for his pan-Celtic unity efforts, a major figure in the story of Vercingetorix

The Arverni elders: Like Celtillus, major figures in Vercingetorix story

This is all preliminary so far and I don't want to reveal too much detail yet, I also need to add a few more main characters. As I said what I need are names for Celts, Romans, Germans, Numidians, a female Dacian and Greeks in order to create a supporting cast of characters with whom the main protagonists can interact.

Any suggestions that do not come from Asterix or Monty Python''s Life of Brian would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone!

[Moros]

Good luck with your attempt, should be interesting. :)

What about Sarkozix and Hollandix?

[Brennus]

Good luck with your attempt, should be interesting. :)

What about Sarkozix and Hollandix?

You mean in addition to Camerolinus and Merkallavistus?

[Ca Putt]

Sounds Great, I will give this some thought maybe I will find some things you might find usefull.

Good luck with this, I'll certainly read this when it is finished.

[Brennus]

Sounds Great, I will give this some thought maybe I will find some things you might find usefull.

Good luck with this, I'll certainly read this when it is finished.

Cheers! The provisional plan is to write it within a decade. Male Celtic names shouldn't prove too difficult to find (I just didn't want too many "rix" characters... not really believable to farmers and craftsmen called Dumnorix and Kingetorix). Female names will be tricky, and I will need to check with the EBII Semitic researchers to make sure names like Jugurtha or Gisgo are not too noble for humble Numidian auxilliaries. The main issue is simply having enough names to use for characters without having to recycle too many.

[Blxz]

Can't help you at all but, for what it's worth, I'd read your book when it comes out. Good luck, you are going to need it; writing is a big bad monster sometimes.

[Edorix]

Ello Brennus.

This resource is incredibly useful for British personal names, both male and female: http://www.asnc.cam.ac.uk/personalnames/

Gaulish names are basically identical; the two languages are usually indistinguishable because of the limitations of having purely written evidence.

This also has a fair few Gaulish names on it: http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/gaulish/

Let me know if you want any of them translating or "orthographising". :)

[Brennus]

Ello Brennus.

This resource is incredibly useful for British personal names, both male and female: http://www.asnc.cam.ac.uk/personalnames/

Gaulish names are basically identical; the two languages are usually indistinguishable because of the limitations of having purely written evidence.

This also has a fair few Gaulish names on it: http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/gaulish/

Let me know if you want any of them translating or "orthographising". :)

Your a legend!

Can anyone suggest any good sources for Roman names, obviously a lot easier but I don't really have the time to travel around museums looking at tomb stones.

[kaptainplanet]

Good luck Brennus:) We r looking forward to seeing your book in our local bookstore;) But u gotta publish it under Brennus, not your real name, ok?

By the way, isnt Zalmoxis a male name for Thrakians? I think one famous priest/prophet of them was called that.

[Ca Putt]

Zalmoxis is a Getae deity afaik.

[seleucid empire]

wow i liked "war and peace" ill definitely read ur book. although in "war and peace" the main point of view characters are on the winning russian side. it'll be very interesting to see the ending of your epic since the gauls get wiped out. Would it be too much to ask you to write a similar (or practice one) in AAR form using the Romans and Hannibals invasion? I would love to read that. The second punic war did last a long time and you could do it from the roman perspective where hannibal could be the equivalent of Napoleon. The Roman and Russian commanders used similar tactics i believe, a scorched earth policy against their enemy?

[Finn MacCumhail]

Another great idea Brennus! It seems it may also turn into a competition.

What I think, W&P is a story of clans, not of the single individuals. Rostov family, Balkonsky family, Bezuhov family. Do you intend to include any clans?

Please, include a character caled Rzhevskyrix. He would be a noble mounted warrior, may be lesser chief or an officer, he is tall man with mustache. He is plain, braggart, vulgar, always telling dirty jokes, always seeks for love affairs, constantly gives advices to other males about gender relations in his vulgar manner, and he dates your variant of Natasha Rostova.

[Brennus]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement! It means a lot to me!

But u gotta publish it under Brennus, not your real name, ok?.

I will add a preface so you know it was written by Brennus if that is any consolation?

wow i liked "war and peace" ill definitely read ur book. although in "war and peace" the main point of view characters are on the winning russian side. it'll be very interesting to see the ending of your epic since the gauls get wiped out. Would it be too much to ask you to write a similar (or practice one) in AAR form using the Romans and Hannibals invasion? I would love to read that. The second punic war did last a long time and you could do it from the roman perspective where hannibal could be the equivalent of Napoleon. The Roman and Russian commanders used similar tactics i believe, a scorched earth policy against their enemy?

The ending should prove satisfactory for pro-Gallic and pro-Roman readers, I planning to have each different (surviving) character at the end draw their own conclusions about the war and their reasons for being involved. If I had time I would write an AAR as a taster but at the moment my time is tied up with helping out the EBII team (hopefully you will like my contributions), planning this book and preparing a political critique for one of the British political parties.

Another great idea Brennus! It seems it may also turn into a competition.

What I think, W&P is a story of clans, not of the single individuals. Rostov family, Balkonsky family, Bezuhov family. Do you intend to include any clans?

Please, include a character caled Rzhevskyrix. He would be a noble mounted warrior, may be lesser chief or an officer, he is tall man with mustache. He is plain, braggart, vulgar, always telling dirty jokes, always seeks for love affairs, constantly gives advices to other males about gender relations in his vulgar manner, and he dates your variant of Natasha Rostova.

There will be families and clans involved but they won't play as central a role as the great families of Tolstoy's works, some families such as Vercingetorix's will play a larger role than others.

The character you suggest bears close similarity to how I plan to portray Commios the Atrebatan; horrifically self promoting, idealistic, flamboyant, charismatic and a tad mad. I was also refining my ideas for Ambiorix today who should prove a popular character.

So far, thanks to Edorix, I have about 150 Celtic personal names to work with. I am currently working through De Bello Gallico and making a list of who was in what position in what Gallic, Belgic, British and Germanic state at what time and what they did. Once that is done I will start to compile Roman names and collate a list of Caesar's general staff and construct a timeline to work around. I am planning to run the story from 62BC and finishing in 50BC including the majority of the battles in the Gallic wars as well as back stories to support my main characters.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

I like the idea a great deal (in fact I was considering a similar project, but have since plumped for a storyline spanning the attempted reforms of the Gracchi) and only offer the following as suggestions, without any implied criticism.

Ariovistus had made treaty with SPQR. I don't think that he was naive about the power of Rome at all. In fact he seems to have been well informed of Roman politics, letting Caesar know that he understood that there were many in Rome who would thank Ariovistus for riding them of Caesar. The battle with Ariovistus' army is the first of many telling battles in Caesar's campaigns in Gaul - telling in that his victory was due to the quality of his junior officers. Time and again the good sense and tactical awareness of his subordinates helped turn battles from potential losses to victory.

As for Commios being mad... There are a few things that make me think he was a very shrewd man, and also a tough soab. He was originally pitted against Caesar but, once defeated, Caesar found him a talented and able ally. This links with the above - Caesar knew something about judging men's talents. He escaped from a botched assassination attempt by the Romans - but not, importantly (I think) at the orders of Caesar, but rather at the orders of Labienus on some (I believe) trumped up 'rumours' of him formenting some rebellion or other... I'll try and retrieve all the sources but, from what I remember, he received pretty awful head wounds in this attempt on his life. Only after that do we find him siding with the rebellious Vercingetorix.

And the whole Vergingetorix story is worth looking at as well. I'm glad that you will have the character 'become' Vercingetorix, as I believe it is a title, rather than a given name. But his rebellion, as it began against the aristocratic senate of the Arverni, was driven by an army made up of those disposessed by the growing power of those aristocrats. Once he was holed up in Alesia much of the relieving forces seemed to.....drag their heels a little. Perhaps some of the nobility of Gaul was not so keen on this Vercingetorix and his ways (it is mentioned that he enforced his command with threats, so was aware of resistance to his position). Indeed we see Dumorix (the Aedui, brother of Diviciacus) use these same delaying tactics when he should have helped relieve Caesar earlier on in his campaign. What I'm saying is that Gaul fell to Caesar, that Vercingetorix was defeated, as much because of the self-interest of certain Gallic nobles as because of Caesar's great generalship....

[stratigos vasilios]

I'd love to see the final product Brennus! I suppose those online 'Roman name converters' aren't tremendously accurate to use?

You should use the name Vasilios somewhere *cough cough*.

[Brennus]

I like the idea a great deal (in fact I was considering a similar project, but have since plumped for a storyline spanning the attempted reforms of the Gracchi) and only offer the following as suggestions, without any implied criticism..

Any criticism is welcome!

Ariovistus had made treaty with SPQR. I don't think that he was naive about the power of Rome at all. In fact he seems to have been well informed of Roman politics, letting Caesar know that he understood that there were many in Rome who would thank Ariovistus for riding them of Caesar. The battle with Ariovistus' army is the first of many telling battles in Caesar's campaigns in Gaul - telling in that his victory was due to the quality of his junior officers. Time and again the good sense and tactical awareness of his subordinates helped turn battles from potential losses to victory.

Upon re-reading my copy of De Bello Gallico I have noted the character of Ariovistus you describe above, I will re-cast him as being well informed of Roman matters but enraged by the hypocrisy of his until recent allies. Think Mubarak/Noriega in Iron Age form and you have the sort of character I am going for.

As for Commios being mad... There are a few things that make me think he was a very shrewd man, and also a tough soab. He was originally pitted against Caesar but, once defeated, Caesar found him a talented and able ally. This links with the above - Caesar knew something about judging men's talents. He escaped from a botched assassination attempt by the Romans - but not, importantly (I think) at the orders of Caesar, but rather at the orders of Labienus on some (I believe) trumped up 'rumours' of him formenting some rebellion or other... I'll try and retrieve all the sources but, from what I remember, he received pretty awful head wounds in this attempt on his life. Only after that do we find him siding with the rebellious Vercingetorix.

When I say mad think borderline genius rather than deranged.

And the whole Vergingetorix story is worth looking at as well. I'm glad that you will have the character 'become' Vercingetorix, as I believe it is a title, rather than a given name. But his rebellion, as it began against the aristocratic senate of the Arverni, was driven by an army made up of those disposessed by the growing power of those aristocrats. Once he was holed up in Alesia much of the relieving forces seemed to.....drag their heels a little. Perhaps some of the nobility of Gaul was not so keen on this Vercingetorix and his ways (it is mentioned that he enforced his command with threats, so was aware of resistance to his position). Indeed we see Dumorix (the Aedui, brother of Diviciacus) use these same delaying tactics when he should have helped relieve Caesar earlier on in his campaign. What I'm saying is that Gaul fell to Caesar, that Vercingetorix was defeated, as much because of the self-interest of certain Gallic nobles as because of Caesar's great generalship....

I think Vercingetorix translates as "Great infantry commander" "Ver-Kingetos-Rix". His story should prove the most interesting for people as his rebellion will come as a bit of a shock to people. I like your idea about the Gallic nobility dragging their heels, very interesting take, class tensions inhibiting the search for national liberty.

You should use the name Vasilios somewhere *cough cough*.

lol. I will see what I can do.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

I think Vercingetorix translates as "Great infantry commander" "Ver-Kingetos-Rix". His story should prove the most interesting for people as his rebellion will come as a bit of a shock to people. I like your idea about the Gallic nobility dragging their heels, very interesting take, class tensions inhibiting the search for national liberty.

That (the class tensions) was my original take on Caesar, but I found him....flawed by his actions in Gaul, where his allies were generally the self-interested nobility who, from what I can gather, were making good from the enslavement of their own people; the very same people that Caesar was set against (if he were truly to be seen as a reformer) within Rome. Vercingetorix then seemed a possible alternative but then I turned toward the Gracchi, having plenty of source material to work with. So I'm glad that you would make Vercingetorix's storyline a central aspect of your book (and I would certainly be interested in reading it).

When I say mad think borderline genius rather than deranged.

I will dig out all my notes (and references) for you, if you would like. I remember that it was a strong possibility that Commios of the Atrebates went to Britain as an ally of Rome, but on the understanding that he did not wish to have to deal with Romans (he having already come close to losing his life to the machinations of Roman politics - remember that Labienus joined the Pompeiians at the outbreak of the civil war...)

The story of Britain pre and post 43 AD is still on my agenda, and working out who was likelya a returning hostage is an interesting question. Almost certainly some of those following on from Commios had been brought up in Rome (as may some of the more rebellious factions' offspring have been... in the same way that Arminius turned his back on the notion of the rightneousness of Rome and its ways, perhaps? It strikes me as a little odd that Caratacos should have been able so fluently to convince a Senate and an Emperor of his heroism and worthiness except in Latin, for example...)

Anyway, I digress. I wish you good fortune with this, and look forward to reading it. Any help that I can offer I will.

[Moros]

Here is an encyclopedia of Greek and Roman biographies: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...3a1999.04.0104
Should be a lot of Roman names in it. Perhaps some of them could even inspire you.

[vartan]

I'd love to see the final product Brennus! I suppose those online 'Roman name converters' aren't tremendously accurate to use?

You should use the name Vasilios somewhere *cough cough*.

That's funny, I knew someone named Vasil when I was a kid. We Armenians still put that name. Is it of Roman origin?

[stratigos vasilios]

That's funny, I knew someone named Vasil when I was a kid. We Armenians still put that name. Is it of Roman origin?

Actually I'm not too sure, I'm thinking it originated from the name Basil (with origins in the Medieval-Byzantine-Eastern Roman era). I guess you could maybe argue it could potentially be (Eastern) Roman. A friend of mine (who has a Russian heritage) spells his name Vasilly but I've seen it spelt Vassilij too. I'm guessing Vasil would be a similar branch of the name Basil as well.

Ah, the joy of language and names!

[moonburn]

i once considered writting a political intrigue novel based on the koinon and the central families of the athenaios and the spartan king always going at odds against the rhodian europontids spartans and creating alot of tensions over voting buying votes assassinations buying off entire city´s to get 1 extra vote deciding beteween pitching for the korinthian vote or the aechean vote since one wanted to ban prostitution and several other stuff and everytime the koinon grew it would become slower to react due to the political tension until it all came down dieing over it´s own weith as new parties emerged and a big and uncontrolable wave of newborn nationalism sweapt across the koinon since taxs where being wasted buying votes and people and where far higher then the litle protection it give due to the inactivity of the executive branch being always second guessed by the assembly of the free greeks

would have been very fun i kind of imagine it a kind of game of thrones novel without the absurdity´s only the real politiks the brutal and savage politics that rationalises things that even the most deviant man in the world could consider dirty and unbecoming of an highborn

[Vilkku92]

i once considered writting a political intrigue novel based on the koinon and the central families of the athenaios and the spartan king always going at odds against the rhodian europontids spartans and creating alot of tensions over voting buying votes assassinations buying off entire city´s to get 1 extra vote deciding beteween pitching for the korinthian vote or the aechean vote since one wanted to ban prostitution and several other stuff and everytime the koinon grew it would become slower to react due to the political tension until it all came down dieing over it´s own weith as new parties emerged and a big and uncontrolable wave of newborn nationalism sweapt across the koinon since taxs where being wasted buying votes and people and where far higher then the litle protection it give due to the inactivity of the executive branch being always second guessed by the assembly of the free greeks

Satire of modern Europe using Koinon Hellenon as an analogy of EU? Because it certainly sounds like that...

[Brennus]

Here is an encyclopedia of Greek and Roman biographies: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...3a1999.04.0104
Should be a lot of Roman names in it. Perhaps some of them could even inspire you.

Excellent! Thanks Moros!

[Advocatus]

Best of luck Brennus.

I'm working on a novel that overlaps the EB time period in part. Sadly, my day job has not been conducive to getting much done.

In connection with that, does anyone know if the list of gaulish names would be applicable for eastern/danubian celts, and if not, what might be a good source? Specifically, I'm looking for names for participants in the balkan invasions of 279 B.C.

Thanks

[vartan]

Actually I'm not too sure, I'm thinking it originated from the name Basil (with origins in the Medieval-Byzantine-Eastern Roman era). I guess you could maybe argue it could potentially be (Eastern) Roman. A friend of mine (who has a Russian heritage) spells his name Vasilly but I've seen it spelt Vassilij too. I'm guessing Vasil would be a similar branch of the name Basil as well.

Ah, the joy of language and names!

Yes! It's exciting. We actually had over a dozen Armenians on that throne, actually, now that you mention it. At least one of them I remember was named Basil. I'm not surprised that there are allophones, as Vasil and Basil, because that's a common shift cross-linguistically. Cool stuff!

[moonburn]

Satire of modern Europe using Koinon Hellenon as an analogy of EU? Because it certainly sounds like that...

could also be a satire to how lack of union is brought by arrogant individuals and what starts up as being a neighbourhood beef ends up destroying entire societies

anyway i was going to add in a few "short" stories on diferent rithms like the story of a particular good assassin spy and siplomat inserting diferent genres into the midle of the political web and how those extraordinary individuals slow down or speed up a decaying society with their actions and roles in the plots

basically the story would go on aslong as i had patient to keep a balance beteween the 2 main parties once i was sick of writting about it i would just add in the last chapter with the breakdown ignited by some stupid insignificant crap and let the intelligent people understand that it´s not the fly that landed in the suspension bridge that broke the damm thing but the 5 elephants stacked in the midle of it

or the best way to describe it is telling a children tale full of phanatasy about a cute rabbit and when you get sick of the damm hopping rat just say he got runned down by a car while he was chassing a butterfly if you have to end it end it with a sledgehammer

anyway a good story is never about the time where it´s written or big armies or smart moves it´s always about people how they interact and how they react to events (that i learned from horror movies it´s never the monster it´s the face of the actor )

anyway brennus good luck on your project and remember to add in litle stories to break the big plot into smaller managable parts and keep the story interesting

[Brennus]

And like Carthage after 2nd Punic War this thread rises to the fore again.

Hello all,
Just thought I would drop a small note providing an update on how I have been getting along with this plan.

Thanks to the suggestions by Edorix I have compiled about 500 male and female Celtic names from which to draw characters.

I have been over the Gallic War about 5 times now (which makes it about the 5000th time in my whole life) and have compiled lists as to which Celtic individuals belonged to which tribe, what rank they held and what actions they undertook. I have also done the same for the Romans (except Caesar) and now have lists of all the Romans listed by name in the wars.

I have also done some character development, fleshing out some of the historical characters (mostly Titus Labienus, Commius and Dumnorix), attributing characters to some of the historically attested individuals who are mentioned by name only such as the centurion Quintus Lucanius (killed in 54BC against the Eburones).

I still need to compile a list of the Germans and use Moros link to put together a backup resource of Romano-Greek names I can use. I also need to list the legion dispositions during the wars and under who's command the legions were.

Can anyone provide me with a list of ranks used in the 1st Century BC Roman army? I know the lower ranks, legionary (milite?), optio, signifier and centurion but am unsure how the officer ranks inter-relate.

Numidian and female Dacian names are also still required for two pivotal characters.

[Brennus]

Also, at the risk of offending our German .org users I intend to portray Ariovistus as an Iron Age Saddam Hussein/Manuel Noriega; despotic, strong willed and brutal to his defeated foes, yet also deeply aware of (yes Gaius Sempronius Gracchus this is on account of your suggestions) Roman politics. He is vexed and enraged by Rome's betrayal yet totally unable to comprehend why Rome should wish to be rid of him.

[Kival]

at the risk of offending our German .org users

Do not fear. I do not think (or at least I hope...) that any German .org user would have a problem with that. Everything sounds interesting so far, I'm looking forward to it.

[helenos aiakides]

There are a lot of characters.....