When Can We Start Breaking Things?

[Vladimir]

People who haven't about clue about the relationship between price and value and how the same is influenced by inputs and outputs will continue to feather Wall Streets nest eggs.

Futures contracts don't encourage investment in production it it is not there purpose to do so.

A futures contract is to protect an initial investment position from swings in the price of said resource.

Agreed. Still, it's wonderful to get into. The problem comes when people start manipulating goods to generate contrived shortages, etc. No harm in normal futures investing.

[gaelic cowboy]

Agreed. Still, it's wonderful to get into. The problem comes when people start manipulating goods to generate contrived shortages, etc. No harm in normal futures investing.

Indeed there is absolutely nothing wrong with futures investment at all at all, the problem as you said yourself is IF people have enough control over the resource to continually make sure there favoured long or short price comes up.

Enron is a fairly good example of a company doing something like this.

[SoFarSoGood]

Did I ever say I agreed with price manipulation? The current rise in grain and food futures is not about manipulation of market but about droughts.

[drone]

This quote has been tossed around for a while, not sure who actually put it out there first:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury.

Over the past 30 or so years, the financial sector has abandoned it's traditional role (facilitating business investment) and done it's best to extract money from the lower and middle classes. When the bubble burst and disposable income dried up, it has moved to raiding saved wealth in the form of retirement accounts and property, and ultimately the collective savings account of the people. The above quote has been proven false, a small minority now has the keys to the Treasury. We payed them voluntarily, then indirectly, and now at the point of a gun.

[gaelic cowboy]

Did I ever say I agreed with price manipulation? The current rise in grain and food futures is not about manipulation of market but about droughts.

I'm not accusing you of it either instead I am merely trying to explain to you that futures contracts are for hedging the price you pay in the future.

Basically there not about encouraging an increase in capacity but are however used to ensure an agreed price tomorrow.

[SoFarSoGood]

Sorry but your idea of the futures market seems different from my reality. You seem to suggest that you can never lose on futures market... I am just lucky and haven't, but you most certainly can lose if you buy too high and the price drops - same as any normal market. I am NOT an in - out 'trader' but in for the long term; numbers of people keep going up and so more food needs producing or it rises in price (almost certainly both will be true).

I have done some shorting, particularly on the Spanish bond market, and did pretty well out of that ty too but does that me bad or the Euro mismanaged? I am not the one putting people out of work all over southern europe or raising the price of food in Europe via the 'Common Agricultural Policy'. If they are mismanaging your money don't elect them... Oh yea you can't because those fools were never elected in the first place.

[Major Robert Dump]

Actually, our politicians and the financial elite are quite creative:

They manage to steal money that never existed, which has to be repaid with real money by the people who never stole the nonexistent money, with the thieves pretending to have not stolen the nonexistent money or to have stolen it by accident. In essence, they are magicians and actors.

[Vladimir]

Actually, our politicians and the financial elite are quite creative:

They manage to steal money that never existed, which has to be repaid with real money by the people who never stole the nonexistent money, with the thieves pretending to have not stolen the nonexistent money or to have stolen it by accident. In essence, they are magicians and actors.

No such thing as "real money" All wealth is subjective, currency is a symbol, and you can't eat gold.

[gaelic cowboy]

Sorry but your idea of the futures market seems different from my reality. You seem to suggest that you can never lose on futures market... I am just lucky and haven't, but you most certainly can lose if you buy too high and the price drops - same as any normal market. I am NOT an in - out 'trader' but in for the long term; numbers of people keep going up and so more food needs producing or it rises in price (almost certainly both will be true).

I have done some shorting, particularly on the Spanish bond market, and did pretty well out of that ty too but does that me bad or the Euro mismanaged? I am not the one putting people out of work all over southern europe or raising the price of food in Europe via the 'Common Agricultural Policy'. If they are mismanaging your money don't elect them... Oh yea you can't because those fools were never elected in the first place.

I never made such a any claim on security of investment actually, futures contracts are essentially an insurance policy so of course you can lose.

Lets go back to the start ok, because you seem to be labouring under an illusion as to what were talking about here.

Hold up... I am not a millionaire or anything but I bought cereal and rice futures a couple of years ago. Why? Because it encourages more people to make more food and as the population is rising food is bound to get more expensive. I didn't know there was going to be bad Russian and American harvests and sure I am now looking at a handy profit thanks. Have I done wrong? Is it wrong to make a profit?

Basically the part in bold is not a reason to buy or sell a futures contract, however if you believe prices may go up or down by all means buy or sell away.

[SoFarSoGood]

My dear fellow I advise you NOT to invest on the stock market.