Is Islam true?.

[total relism]

TR stay on the original topic.

Do you eat pizza?

Of course I eat pizza,who does not, only those crazies would not eat such a magical meal.

Well, that's the first time I've been "accused" of being a Muslim.

Before this goes any farther, I'll ask you this question: Do you believe the Christian god is the same as the Hebrew god?

Yes.

[drone]

Yes.

Then I've got news for you, the christian god is the same as the muslim god. All the good fluff from jewish scripture was repackaged into the koran, Adam, Noah, etc. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C (where A = God, B = Jehovah, and C = Allah).

From a strictly philosophical standpoint, they have to be the same. Each of the three religions specify that there is only one deity. Each chooses to apply highlight specific aspects to this deity, but none of them are necessarily correct in their interpretation. If monotheistic individual A worships a god one way, and monotheistic individual B worships a god another, they are praying to the same thing. They just might not be doing it correctly.

[Hax]

Having read the Quran I can say I was unimpressed by the plagiaristic dictation of a mediocre and illiterate business man and member of a semi-powerful Arabic clan. Wilfully taking and rewording the Torah and New Testaments after allegedly meeting with god 20 times and satan 4 times into a "new" book with which to leverage his own earthly aims is not something to follow or be impressed by. Like any fiction, it should be taken as the metaphor of the times it was constructed in. And certainly not followed as true, "holy" or any other such way.

Correct. There are just two things:

Firstly, the notion of Muhammad as being illiterate is based on pretty flimsy evidence: the Qur‘ân notes: "alladhina yattabi‘una al-rasul al-nabî al-ummî alladhi (etc)" (7:158), its meaning was taken to be "those who follow the messenger, the mother-like prophet", and assumed on the false premise that women were generally illiterate, that Muhammad was illiterate as well. An Arabic term most people are familiar with is "umma", meaning "nation" (much like how Hebrew goy used to mean the same thing). So why not read "the nation's prophet" or "the pure prophet" (which is actually the translation one of the Qur‘âns I own uses)? I don't know, that's tradition for you.

Interestingly, my other Dutch Qur‘ân reads "unschooled" (which is still different from "illiterate"). My French translation does read "illetré". Interesting.


Secondly, the notion of Muhammad wilfully plagiarising the New and Old Testament. Okay, that's a way of seeing that, but you have to look at the context of the Arabian peninsula at the time. It was definitely not a place isolated from the outside (Graeco-Roman and Persian and Indian, what-have-you) worlds, but was an interesting crossroads where all different kinds of beliefs pretty much came together and mixed and did other interesting stuff. So I don't actually believe the theory that Muhammad just went out to Syria, read (or heard) Christian and Jewish scripture, plagiarised and edited it slightly, and then inserted it in the Qur'an.

It is far more likely that in this region, where many different "heresies" and folk beliefs manifested themselves without there actually being an authority (like the Church in the Byzantine-controlled Levant and Egypt, or the Zoroastrian clergy in Persia) and got mashed together into all kinds of mythologies. It does not mean that Muhammad was the first to steal/borrow/loan Christian, Zoroastrian, Jewish and Arabic folk beliefs, it just means that these kinds of beliefs pretty much existed side-by-side and influenced eachother.

[HoreTore]

That's a big misconception you're pointing out there, Hax.

Arabia was populated by mostly Nomadic or semi-nomadic tribes pre-Islam. When we read "nomad", we tend to think "primitive" or similar terms.

In the context of how Islam was born, this is a far from proper. Nomads are mobile traders. They both moved around a lot, they interacted with everyone they came across, and they exchanged both money, wares and ideas(a good conversation is a must for a good deal). As such, I find it highly likely that they not only knew about, but had in-depth knowledge of neighboring traditions, customs, laws and religions.

And that's before you add the fact that Arabia was a trade hub, of course.

[Hax]

Very good!

We have huge amounts of inscriptions made by pre-Islamic nomads in the Arabian peninsula. The notion that we're dealing with illiterate barbarian nomads is something that needs to be discarded. Basically, almost all​ nomads knew how to write in one script or another. It's crazy.

[Sigurd]

Interestingly, my other Dutch Qur‘ân reads "unschooled" (which is still different from "illiterate"). My French translation does read "illetré". Interesting.

Yes.. the injected notion of a divine intervention that must have taken place because the receiver was unschooled and thus had not the faculties to forge such a manuscript. There is a few of those around.

[Hax]

Well, that's exactly why they interpreted it like that: "He's illiterate! How could he have come up with that amazing work we call the Qur‘an?!"

So yeah.

[Kadagar_AV]

Would it be Total Realism, to aim for divine status?

[Fragony]

That's a big misconception you're pointing out there, Hax.

Arabia was populated by mostly Nomadic or semi-nomadic tribes pre-Islam. When we read "nomad", we tend to think "primitive" or similar terms.

In the context of how Islam was born, this is a far from proper. Nomads are mobile traders. They both moved around a lot, they interacted with everyone they came across, and they exchanged both money, wares and ideas(a good conversation is a must for a good deal). As such, I find it highly likely that they not only knew about, but had in-depth knowledge of neighboring traditions, customs, laws and religions.

And that's before you add the fact that Arabia was a trade hub, of course.

Mohammed was no nomad though, he was a city merchant. Which makes it pretty unlikely he was illiterate of course. Hax is probably right that he just wasn't educated in the way educated meant; highly educated.

[total relism]

Then I've got news for you, the christian god is the same as the muslim god. All the good fluff from jewish scripture was repackaged into the koran, Adam, Noah, etc. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C (where A = God, B = Jehovah, and C = Allah).

From a strictly philosophical standpoint, they have to be the same. Each of the three religions specify that there is only one deity. Each chooses to apply highlight specific aspects to this deity, but none of them are necessarily correct in their interpretation. If monotheistic individual A worships a god one way, and monotheistic individual B worships a god another, they are praying to the same thing. They just might not be doing it correctly.

I disagree fully with you, as does the bible,the koran, and any jewish text. They all claim absolute truth, they all contradict each other. Just because someone believes in one god, does not mean they believe in the same god. Jahovahs witness also believe in one god. Nt jesus says he is last profit none to come after, either the nt is gods word inspired and koran false, or it is wrong in witch case as I pointed out they are both false. Your koran does not speak well of christian and jews either.


believers do not be friends with jews or Christians 5.51 5.57 believers do not be friends with jews or Christians 5.51 5.57 it is evil to be friends with unbelievers 5 80-82
jews Christians are perverse 9.29-30
Qur’an 98:6—Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.
those who do mischief cut there hands and feet from opposite sides and crucify them 5.33 Muhammad himself did so to jews vol 8 book 82 hadith 795
Sahih Muslim 4366—It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattab that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.


But here is a post I did on clear differences between the bible/koran
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=531553

[rajpoot]

I haven't read this thread through, but I do have few questions for the OP.

You're trying to prove that Islam is a false religion based on what the Quran has to say. Say I agree with you (because I'm neither Christian nor Jew nor Muslim....in fact I'm not religious at all). But then I also believe that like the Quran while the Bible makes a good read, it is more or less fiction too. As are many of the religious stories told about other religions.
Can you prove otherwise? Can you prove that any religion is true?

[total relism]

I haven't read this thread through, but I do have few questions for the OP.

You're trying to prove that Islam is a false religion based on what the Quran has to say. Say I agree with you (because I'm neither Christian nor Jew nor Muslim....in fact I'm not religious at all). But then I also believe that like the Quran while the Bible makes a good read, it is more or less fiction too. As are many of the religious stories told about other religions.
Can you prove otherwise? Can you prove that any religion is true?

Great question, I believe it can be shown to be true, but at same time cannot prove it to be true. Just as anything that is past event, we cant prove abraham Lincoln was a real person. We can show all evidence indicates this, body with his name on tombstone, photos,people claim its him etc etc. So it would be constant with belief he is true. I believe the same can be shown with bible. I will eventually do a thread on this very subject.

[drone]

I disagree fully with you, as does the bible,the koran, and any jewish text. They all claim absolute truth, they all contradict each other. Just because someone believes in one god, does not mean they believe in the same god. Jahovahs witness also believe in one god. Nt jesus says he is last profit none to come after, either the nt is gods word inspired and koran false, or it is wrong in witch case as I pointed out they are both false.

And yet you just repeated my argument back to me. Of course each claims absolute truth, they are religions after all. How they depict their deity and how they choose to worship their deity will be different. You said you believe the hebrew god is the same as the christian god, why do you choose to ignore those contradictions but not regarding the muslim god?

Your koran does not speak well of christian and jews either.

1. It's not my koran.
2. Muslims consider jews and christians "people of the book". You may not believe all three worship the same god, but muslims do. Look up the term "Abrahamic religions".
3. And since their book is a later edition, they get to badmouth the others in print.

[rvg]

2. Muslims consider jews and christians "people of the book".

True, but they're still supposed to hate both jews and christians. They can't treat jews and christians like cattle as would be the case with the pagans, but still.

You may not believe all three worship the same god, but muslims do.

That largely depends on whom you believe to have revealed koran to mohammed. If it was Gabriel, then yes. What if it was Lucifer though?

3. And since their book is a later edition, they get to badmouth the others in print.

And they do so in abundance.

[drone]

True, but they're still supposed to hate both jews and christians. They can't treat jews and christians like cattle as would be the case with the pagans, but still.
...
And they do so in abundance.

Think of it as a dog humping another to assert dominance. About as apt a description of proselytizing religions as any, I guess.

Muslims may not like jews or christians, but this does not have any bearing on whether islam is the one true faith or not. It just means they are kinda dicks about it.

[rajpoot]

Great question, I believe it can be shown to be true, but at same time cannot prove it to be true. Just as anything that is past event, we cant prove abraham Lincoln was a real person. We can show all evidence indicates this, body with his name on tombstone, photos,people claim its him etc etc. So it would be constant with belief he is true. I believe the same can be shown with bible. I will eventually do a thread on this very subject.

I look forward to that thread.
I do however believe that statements/stories from religious texts, (no matter which is the religion in question) can also be used to show that what's written is anything more than a fairy tale. That would require some faith in modern science though.

[rvg]

Muslims may not like jews or christians, but this does not have any bearing on whether islam is the one true faith or not. It just means they are kinda dicks about it.

I would take it a step further and say that they're required to be dicks about it.

[Strike For The South]

, we cant prove abraham Lincoln was a real person.

This is the problem with mass literacy

[Papewaio]

I disagree fully with you, as does the bible,the koran, and any jewish text. They all claim absolute truth, they all contradict each other. Just because someone believes in one god, does not mean they believe in the same god. Jahovahs witness also believe in one god. Nt jesus says he is last profit none to come after, either the nt is gods word inspired and koran false, or it is wrong in witch case as I pointed out they are both false. Your koran does not speak well of christian and jews either.

Lets apply your standards, and to be internally consistent we should start with the book set most of us are more familiar wih. First standard for something to be true is to be non-contradictory.

Apart from contradictions between versions and editions within versions, the bible contradicts itself within books in an edition. The contradictions start with the very first two Gensis books. These have enough contradictions to be by your standards false.

Not only do the foundation pillars falsify themselves by not stating the same facts of a situation one only needs to read the gospels to see different versions of the same story. Again by your standards as they are not in one to one agreement this makes them false.

So by your rules that contradictions means they are false you've just proved that the bible is a false set of books.

Your rules, not mine.

[total relism]

And yet you just repeated my argument back to me. Of course each claims absolute truth, they are religions after all. How they depict their deity and how they choose to worship their deity will be different. You said you believe the hebrew god is the same as the christian god, why do you choose to ignore those contradictions but not regarding the muslim god?


1. It's not my koran.
2. Muslims consider jews and christians "people of the book". You may not believe all three worship the same god, but muslims do. Look up the term "Abrahamic religions".
3. And since their book is a later edition, they get to badmouth the others in print.

What contradictions between OT and NT? please let me now. But as I said the god of Islam and the bible are very diffident. The bible and jesus say right off anyone that comes after me is false, I am the last to be sent. the koran as well, if you are Muslim reads your own koran. Allah feels very diffident than you on christian and jews.

[9:28] O you who believe, the idol worshipers are polluted; they shall not be permitted to approach the Sacred Masjid after this year. If you fear loss of income, GOD will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth among those who received the scripture, until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

Blasphemies
[9:30] The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.

Upholding the Teachings of Religious Leaders Instead of God's Teachings
[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords,* instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners

Footnote

[9:32] They want to put out GOD's light with their mouths, but GOD insists upon perfecting His light, in spite of the disbelievers.

"Submission" Destined to Prevail*
[9:33] He is the One who sent His messenger* with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers

So I have pointed out to you on two post, were allah disagrees with you on what christian/jews worship. You have what is called modern liberal politically correct view of religions, not based on any truth.

I look forward to that thread.
I do however believe that statements/stories from religious texts, (no matter which is the religion in question) can also be used to show that what's written is anything more than a fairy tale. That would require some faith in modern science though.

I look forward to hearing your objections when I do the post. I do hope you come to it with open mind and not outright dismiss something because it may be from god. that would not make scence true.

This is the problem with mass literacy

You cannot prove it, prove it to me show me it. Impossible, you can show me pictures,things people wrote,a body in a grave etc but you cant prove to me he is real. It could be a hoax etc. but all evidence is constant with the belief he was real so no reason to reject it.

Lets apply your standards, and to be internally consistent we should start with the book set most of us are more familiar wih. First standard for something to be true is to be non-contradictory.

Apart from contradictions between versions and editions within versions, the bible contradicts itself within books in an edition. The contradictions start with the very first two Gensis books. These have enough contradictions to be by your standards false.

Not only do the foundation pillars falsify themselves by not stating the same facts of a situation one only needs to read the gospels to see different versions of the same story. Again by your standards as they are not in one to one agreement this makes them false.

So by your rules that contradictions means they are false you've just proved that the bible is a false set of books.

Your rules, not mine.

Well you just made alot of claims about contradictions, that you claim genesis 1 and 2 contradict gives me good reason to assume you never read the bible. lets say you give your top 3 contradictions in bible. I will give my top 3 for koran. Does that sound good?


But allah agrees with me, as does bible and jesus, they cant both be true.


[9:28] O you who believe, the idol worshipers are polluted; they shall not be permitted to approach the Sacred Masjid after this year. If you fear loss of income, GOD will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth among those who received the scripture, until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

Blasphemies
[9:30] The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.

Upholding the Teachings of Religious Leaders Instead of God's Teachings
[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords,* instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners

Footnote

[9:32] They want to put out GOD's light with their mouths, but GOD insists upon perfecting His light, in spite of the disbelievers.

"Submission" Destined to Prevail*
[9:33] He is the One who sent His messenger* with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers


also please try and explain these differences.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=531553

[Hax]

I do hope you come to it with open mind and not outright dismiss something because it may be from god.

What.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Then I've got news for you, the christian god is the same as the muslim god. All the good fluff from jewish scripture was repackaged into the koran, Adam, Noah, etc. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C (where A = God, B = Jehovah, and C = Allah).

From a strictly philosophical standpoint, they have to be the same. Each of the three religions specify that there is only one deity. Each chooses to apply highlight specific aspects to this deity, but none of them are necessarily correct in their interpretation. If monotheistic individual A worships a god one way, and monotheistic individual B worships a god another, they are praying to the same thing. They just might not be doing it correctly.

No, not really, but TR is wrong too.

In order for you to be right you'd need to demonstrate that all three religions are equally correct/wrong.

[Brenus]

“What contradictions between OT and NT? please let me now”
It is so simple. It took me around 5 seconds on internet:
Contradiction OT/NT (and within):

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Elijah went up to heaven. 2 Ki.2:11.
A man, known to Paul, went up to heaven. 2 Cor.12:2-4.
Enoch went "to heaven". Gen.5:24; Heb.11:5.
Only "Jesus" ever went up to heaven. Jn.3:13.

It was impossible for God and Judah together to defeat the enemy. Jud.1:19.
Nothing is impossible for God. Lk.1:37.

Sacrifices were to take away sin. Num.15:24-28.
"Jesus" sacrifice took away sins. Heb.10:12; Heb.9:26-28.
Sacrifices never take away sin. Heb.10:11

Two dead persons were raised by Jesus. Mt.9:18-25; Jn.11:38-44.
Dead children were raised before the time of Jesus. 1 Ki. 17:17-23; 2 Ki.4:32-37.
Jesus was the first to be raised from the dead. Acts 26:23.

My dear friend TR (AKA Total Realism), you should read more before asking things.

[total relism]

“What contradictions between OT and NT? please let me now”
It is so simple. It took me around 5 seconds on internet:
Contradiction OT/NT (and within):

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Elijah went up to heaven. 2 Ki.2:11.
A man, known to Paul, went up to heaven. 2 Cor.12:2-4.
Enoch went "to heaven". Gen.5:24; Heb.11:5.
Only "Jesus" ever went up to heaven. Jn.3:13.

It was impossible for God and Judah together to defeat the enemy. Jud.1:19.
Nothing is impossible for God. Lk.1:37.

Sacrifices were to take away sin. Num.15:24-28.
"Jesus" sacrifice took away sins. Heb.10:12; Heb.9:26-28.
Sacrifices never take away sin. Heb.10:11

Two dead persons were raised by Jesus. Mt.9:18-25; Jn.11:38-44.
Dead children were raised before the time of Jesus. 1 Ki. 17:17-23; 2 Ki.4:32-37.
Jesus was the first to be raised from the dead. Acts 26:23.

My dear friend TR (AKA Total Realism), you should read more before asking things.

First I have to point out, if you are Muslim, than claiming the OT and NT are false is same as claiming koran is false. If you do not believe in all of scripture than you go to hell, both koran and bible. Muhammad said bible was word of god in 600 ad, so it had to be correct as it is today. Also the koran is clear that allahs word cannot be corrupted by man, that included ot and gospel. You have to have faith and trust in previous scripture.

You have to understand, you could find hundreds on "contradictions" on atheist websites etc. That does not mean any could stand, I have answered hundreds on my own before. I could do so with koran as well
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/qu...a/by_name.html
http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

First one. Not a contradiction between OT and NT, or ot.

proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished
exodus 34 6-7

This passages lets you now, that god is all loving ps 145.9 yet because he loves he judges jer 13.14. A all loving god must also hate sin, he must also punish sin, because he does love. This does not mean he does not love the sinner.

7#If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, 8#and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. 9#And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 10#and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.
Jeremiah 18 7-10

"'Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?,' says the Lord God, 'And not rather that he should turn from his way and live? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone,' says the Lord God. 'So turn and live! Say to them, "As I live," says the Lord God, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways. For why will you die?"'" (Ez. 18.23,32; 33.11)


also this same claim could be pointed out of koran, yet I never saw this as a contradiction.
allah loves 2.222
allah does not love the unbelievers 3.30-35 god does not love the evil doers 3.56-57
Muslims were created to help Muhammad in war 9.40
unbelievers are enemies 4.101 etc etc


2 That is very good one I had never herd before, thank you. but no contradiction

first you must read proverbs 30.4. Than john 33.5-18. You will see the context in witch it is used clearly. No one can understand haven but those that come from haven, down to earth to exspalin haven. That happened once only jesus. Than read proverbs 30.4


3 That is just terrible and I am now depressed, its 100% true that you have never read bible to make a claim like this as a contradiction. No wonder you believe the koran/bible both worship same god, you never read bible.

Judges God could beat any army if he chose to do so, judges 4.13-15 [and rest of bible] had isreal obeyed god they would have won any battles as he would have fought for them to victory 2.1-3 18-22. This is a repeating cycle in the promise land, clearly seen by anyone who has read the bible.



4 sin
Ot sacrifices were a covering for sin, they could "sanctify" and "pruify" heb 9.13,23 But could never remove sin and guilt. Otherwise as paul points out in hebrews,they would not need to be repeated over and over. That is why in john 1.29 john the baptist says

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
john 1.29

Jesus took away the sins of the world, he did not cover the sins, to be scarficed over and over. Read hebrews for more on this, great book.


5 you must read Colossians 1

Colossians 1:18 states, “And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.”

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Corinthians 15:20-22

Jesus Christ was not the first person ever raised from the dead, but the first to rise and not die again. in bodily form as well. He is our first-fruits [Jewish festival] fulfillment of ot.

Romans 6:9 says, “knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.”
Revelation 1:18 records Jesus' words to the Apostle John. “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.”


also firstborn can also refer to rank read psalm 89.27 ex 4,22, clearly not first in a series.



5 for you. between koran/bible, as that is the topic.

1 allah does not want all to be saved
llah does not will all to be saved 32.12-32 god wishes to scourge unbelievers for his sins 5.48-50 god could have led all man to him, but he leads them astray because of there bad deeds 13.31 allah punishes unbelievers,so there souls shall depart in unbelief 9.55 … Allah misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills ... (Q.14:4; 16:93). god wishes to scourge sinners 5.49
Allah does not care if people go to haven or hell “these to eternal fire, and I care not”and these to paradise I care not”kisasul-anbiya 21.9150 abu-dawood 2203 al timidhi 38 mishkat al misablih 3.112-13

god of bible does
"The Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance" (2Pet. 3.9).
"He desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" (1Tim. 2.4).
"'Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?,' says the Lord God, 'And not rather that he should turn from his way and live? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone,' says the Lord God. 'So turn and live! Say to them, "As I live," says the Lord God, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways. For why will you die?"'" (Ez. 18.23,32; 33.11).


2 allah allows unbelievers to live longer only so they sin more, and receive a greater punishment 3.178

god of bible responding to a question from a church on why Jesus had not returned and what he was waiting for-
the Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 peter 3.9
so god allows unbelievers to live,in hopes they will come to believe in him.


3 allah can lie
Allah – The Greatest Deceiver of them All
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamo...t_deceiver.htm
god is deceitful 8.41-45 allah is a schemer like man 86.17

god of the bible cannot lie Titus 1:2 Hebrews 6:18



4]allah ordained death 40.67-73 god is the author of death,death was a original part of creation.

god of bible
Death is the last enemy to be destroyed
Corinthians 15.26


5 allah said god will love you, if you love him first 3.30-35 and believers need to help god for him to help them 47.5-11

Jesus said of those who love only those who love them -if you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? Matt 5.46


My dear friend, try reading bible before you make claims it has contradictions, and before claiming the koran and bible worship the same god.

[total relism]

Since we are on the topic of some claiming bible/islam worship the same god.



names of some of the prophets such as Jonah,Elijah,and Issac,appear in Arabic of the Koran as translated from greek rather than Semitic[witch would be espected if those were divinely reveled]

Christianity can explain the origin of Islam,but Islam cannot explain Christianity
The bible says that there will be false prophets who will mislead many after the bible. So we would aspect a religion like Islam. But if Islam is true than Allah created the world biggest religion Christianity, by deceiving people and accidentally creating the worlds largest belief system counter to his own.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Autho...eptive_god.htm


Koran makes almost no references to ot while nt does hundreds of times

Muhammad said he could be found in the bible and that the bible told of his coming,yet he is not in there at all
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2010...hammad-in.html

[Brenus]

"You have to understand, you could find hundreds on "contradictions" on atheist websites etc." You have to understand that there is no an atheist "doctrine" or Religion. By definition, you can't have a difference or contradiction in a non belief. There is no "holly" text in atheism. You might a different opinion on why you don't believe, but no body tell you what are the good reasons for not believing.
As soon you will understand this, your life will become more complex.

[Brenus]

And the topic was: Contradiction OT/NT. Not if Muslim pray the same god or not.
For this, there is various interpretation, but the Muslim faith recognises the Religions from the Book (AKA the Bible) but kill all other tenants of others faiths, especially polytheist ones.

[Hax]

Not necessarily. The Sabaeans (i.e. probably moon-worshippers of some kind or another) were also named. The concept of ahl al-kitâb was extended to Zoroastrians, Hindus and Buddhists.

Just because something is written in a holy book, doesn't mean that the believers can't think for themselves. We tend to forget taht.

[Kival]

Not necessarily. The Sabaeans (i.e. probably moon-worshippers of some kind or another) were also named. The concept of ahl al-kitâb was extended to Zoroastrians, Hindus and Buddhists.

Nice to know. Do you happen to have some kind of source about which kind of religions were "protected" and which ones hunted?

[Brenus]

To Hax: I didn't know. But the Bogomiles in Bosnia were persecuted. I was describing the most extreme interpretation of the Koran, or the one used by the Muslim Empire(s) do justify the conquest.