Is Islam true?.

[drone]

And the 4 gospels, written many lifetimes after the death of Jesus, handpicked by the church leaders into the canon, and translated, are 100% historically accurate?

My question was not how Muslims and Christians perceive and portray Jesus. They both accept that he existed, but Muslims do not believe him to be a son of god, merely a prophet so of course there will be differences. However, the fact that they consider him a prophet and not some random heretic point to the Christian god and Muslim God being one and the same. We can get into the angels if you want.

[Kadagar_AV]

It's kind of endearing how he goes on nilly willy... By now he even gave up arguing against someone, he goes straight to sprouting propaganda.

[drone]

I am curious how he plans on explaining Abraham.

[total relism]

And the 4 gospels, written many lifetimes after the death of Jesus, handpicked by the church leaders into the canon, and translated, are 100% historically accurate?

My question was not how Muslims and Christians perceive and portray Jesus. They both accept that he existed, but Muslims do not believe him to be a son of god, merely a prophet so of course there will be differences. However, the fact that they consider him a prophet and not some random heretic point to the Christian god and Muslim God being one and the same. We can get into the angels if you want.

evidence to the contrary? have you ever seen any debates on translation of bible? my guess not so much, nt was written last book by 95 ad latest by apostle john before his death. Church choosing cannon? not so much either, accurate yes over 99% only 1,000 words in question, none effect doctrine. Please watch here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuiayuxWwuI

As you are clearly Muslim [its about time you guys started to show up, atheist get predictable] How do you reconcile differences,contradictions in koran.bible when Muhammad said bible is 100% accurate in 600 AD. We have complete bibles from 400 ad on.

The koran itself says man cannot change the words of allah, the koran says the torah and gospel cannot be corrupted by man, yet you claim the gospel has been corrupted you contradict your own koran by claiming the bible is corrupted, read your own koran 6.115 and 18.27.
allah promised jesus his followers will have power over those that try to corrupt his words. 40 70-72
61.14 says O you who have believed, be supporters of Allah , as when Jesus, the son of Mary, said to the disciples, "Who are my supporters for Allah ?" The disciples said, "We are supporters of Allah ." And a faction of the Children of Israel believed and a faction disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became dominant.

you cannot believe in some parts of scripture but not others 2.84-85 173-175 or you will go to hell
believers are to believe in all scripture 42.15
have faith in previous scripture formerly reveled 4.135-137
10.94 koran says to ask people who have read scripture before you
jews at the time of Muhammad are said to have gods own word in the torah 5 42-44
jews Christians were reading true scripture at time of Muhammad 2.113-114
allah and those who have been given the book, have one and the same god ,Muslims believe in what was reveled to jews and Christians before Muhammad 29.46-49
Muslims must be inconsistent believing gospels are not accurate and same times accepting information from gospel of Thomas and others written far later.

many more passages could be sited, but if you claim the bible has been corrupted, than you go against Allahs eternal word and Prophet Muhammad.



bud-ism or Hindu say jesus was prophet as well,does that mean they are the same? what about Mormon/Jehovah witness,they do as well. We all worship the same god, he is just very diffident in every other way lol.

[a completely inoffensive name]

TR stay on the original topic.

Do you eat pizza?

[drone]

As you are clearly Muslim [its about time you guys started to show up, atheist get predictable] How do you reconcile differences,contradictions in koran.bible when Muhammad said bible is 100% accurate in 600 AD. We have complete bibles from 400 ad on.

Well, that's the first time I've been "accused" of being a Muslim.

Before this goes any farther, I'll ask you this question: Do you believe the Christian god is the same as the Hebrew god?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

OK - well I almost feel like I should jump in and bale TR out - but I've been over this so many time now.

The argument you are having is one of definitions. The lot of you are going round in circles for lack of a common definition of "moral".

Traditionally, in religious and pre-Socratic thought "morals" were arbitrarily determined by a God of Justice or Law - after the coming of the Sophists moral philosophy developed a potentially utilitarian dimension - the essence of which is the Protagorean statement that "whatever morals best serve a society are the right ones."

As far as Lars thoughts of religion go - they're hogwash.

A single God has a single will, it does not matter how many times his followers splinter and argue, some will always be closer to Him than others. Personally, I think Islam is not credible primarily because it reads like a tinfoil hat conspiracy of a religion - the Jews were lied to, the Christians were lied to, but now Islam is here and it's the truth.

Yeah...

At least Christianity's relationship to Judaism makes something approaching sense - Christians being Jewish heretics.

[naut]

Having read the Quran I can say I was unimpressed by the plagiaristic dictation of a mediocre and illiterate business man and member of a semi-powerful Arabic clan. Wilfully taking and rewording the Torah and New Testaments after allegedly meeting with god 20 times and satan 4 times into a "new" book with which to leverage his own earthly aims is not something to follow or be impressed by. Like any fiction, it should be taken as the metaphor of the times it was constructed in. And certainly not followed as true, "holy" or any other such way.

But, no doubt the availability cascade of your society and your support mechanisms will ensure whatever discourse against your chosen believe will suffer from the backfire effect.

[total relism]

TR stay on the original topic.

Do you eat pizza?

Of course I eat pizza,who does not, only those crazies would not eat such a magical meal.

Well, that's the first time I've been "accused" of being a Muslim.

Before this goes any farther, I'll ask you this question: Do you believe the Christian god is the same as the Hebrew god?

Yes.

[drone]

Yes.

Then I've got news for you, the christian god is the same as the muslim god. All the good fluff from jewish scripture was repackaged into the koran, Adam, Noah, etc. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C (where A = God, B = Jehovah, and C = Allah).

From a strictly philosophical standpoint, they have to be the same. Each of the three religions specify that there is only one deity. Each chooses to apply highlight specific aspects to this deity, but none of them are necessarily correct in their interpretation. If monotheistic individual A worships a god one way, and monotheistic individual B worships a god another, they are praying to the same thing. They just might not be doing it correctly.

[Hax]

Having read the Quran I can say I was unimpressed by the plagiaristic dictation of a mediocre and illiterate business man and member of a semi-powerful Arabic clan. Wilfully taking and rewording the Torah and New Testaments after allegedly meeting with god 20 times and satan 4 times into a "new" book with which to leverage his own earthly aims is not something to follow or be impressed by. Like any fiction, it should be taken as the metaphor of the times it was constructed in. And certainly not followed as true, "holy" or any other such way.

Correct. There are just two things:

Firstly, the notion of Muhammad as being illiterate is based on pretty flimsy evidence: the Qur‘ân notes: "alladhina yattabi‘una al-rasul al-nabî al-ummî alladhi (etc)" (7:158), its meaning was taken to be "those who follow the messenger, the mother-like prophet", and assumed on the false premise that women were generally illiterate, that Muhammad was illiterate as well. An Arabic term most people are familiar with is "umma", meaning "nation" (much like how Hebrew goy used to mean the same thing). So why not read "the nation's prophet" or "the pure prophet" (which is actually the translation one of the Qur‘âns I own uses)? I don't know, that's tradition for you.

Interestingly, my other Dutch Qur‘ân reads "unschooled" (which is still different from "illiterate"). My French translation does read "illetré". Interesting.


Secondly, the notion of Muhammad wilfully plagiarising the New and Old Testament. Okay, that's a way of seeing that, but you have to look at the context of the Arabian peninsula at the time. It was definitely not a place isolated from the outside (Graeco-Roman and Persian and Indian, what-have-you) worlds, but was an interesting crossroads where all different kinds of beliefs pretty much came together and mixed and did other interesting stuff. So I don't actually believe the theory that Muhammad just went out to Syria, read (or heard) Christian and Jewish scripture, plagiarised and edited it slightly, and then inserted it in the Qur'an.

It is far more likely that in this region, where many different "heresies" and folk beliefs manifested themselves without there actually being an authority (like the Church in the Byzantine-controlled Levant and Egypt, or the Zoroastrian clergy in Persia) and got mashed together into all kinds of mythologies. It does not mean that Muhammad was the first to steal/borrow/loan Christian, Zoroastrian, Jewish and Arabic folk beliefs, it just means that these kinds of beliefs pretty much existed side-by-side and influenced eachother.

[total relism]

Then I've got news for you, the christian god is the same as the muslim god. All the good fluff from jewish scripture was repackaged into the koran, Adam, Noah, etc. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C (where A = God, B = Jehovah, and C = Allah).

From a strictly philosophical standpoint, they have to be the same. Each of the three religions specify that there is only one deity. Each chooses to apply highlight specific aspects to this deity, but none of them are necessarily correct in their interpretation. If monotheistic individual A worships a god one way, and monotheistic individual B worships a god another, they are praying to the same thing. They just might not be doing it correctly.

I disagree fully with you, as does the bible,the koran, and any jewish text. They all claim absolute truth, they all contradict each other. Just because someone believes in one god, does not mean they believe in the same god. Jahovahs witness also believe in one god. Nt jesus says he is last profit none to come after, either the nt is gods word inspired and koran false, or it is wrong in witch case as I pointed out they are both false. Your koran does not speak well of christian and jews either.


believers do not be friends with jews or Christians 5.51 5.57 believers do not be friends with jews or Christians 5.51 5.57 it is evil to be friends with unbelievers 5 80-82
jews Christians are perverse 9.29-30
Qur’an 98:6—Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.
those who do mischief cut there hands and feet from opposite sides and crucify them 5.33 Muhammad himself did so to jews vol 8 book 82 hadith 795
Sahih Muslim 4366—It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattab that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.


But here is a post I did on clear differences between the bible/koran
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=531553

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Then I've got news for you, the christian god is the same as the muslim god. All the good fluff from jewish scripture was repackaged into the koran, Adam, Noah, etc. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C (where A = God, B = Jehovah, and C = Allah).

From a strictly philosophical standpoint, they have to be the same. Each of the three religions specify that there is only one deity. Each chooses to apply highlight specific aspects to this deity, but none of them are necessarily correct in their interpretation. If monotheistic individual A worships a god one way, and monotheistic individual B worships a god another, they are praying to the same thing. They just might not be doing it correctly.

No, not really, but TR is wrong too.

In order for you to be right you'd need to demonstrate that all three religions are equally correct/wrong.