Is Islam true?.

[total relism]

Then I've got news for you, the christian god is the same as the muslim god. All the good fluff from jewish scripture was repackaged into the koran, Adam, Noah, etc. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C (where A = God, B = Jehovah, and C = Allah).

From a strictly philosophical standpoint, they have to be the same. Each of the three religions specify that there is only one deity. Each chooses to apply highlight specific aspects to this deity, but none of them are necessarily correct in their interpretation. If monotheistic individual A worships a god one way, and monotheistic individual B worships a god another, they are praying to the same thing. They just might not be doing it correctly.

I disagree fully with you, as does the bible,the koran, and any jewish text. They all claim absolute truth, they all contradict each other. Just because someone believes in one god, does not mean they believe in the same god. Jahovahs witness also believe in one god. Nt jesus says he is last profit none to come after, either the nt is gods word inspired and koran false, or it is wrong in witch case as I pointed out they are both false. Your koran does not speak well of christian and jews either.


believers do not be friends with jews or Christians 5.51 5.57 believers do not be friends with jews or Christians 5.51 5.57 it is evil to be friends with unbelievers 5 80-82
jews Christians are perverse 9.29-30
Qur’an 98:6—Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.
those who do mischief cut there hands and feet from opposite sides and crucify them 5.33 Muhammad himself did so to jews vol 8 book 82 hadith 795
Sahih Muslim 4366—It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattab that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.


But here is a post I did on clear differences between the bible/koran
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=531553

[rajpoot]

I haven't read this thread through, but I do have few questions for the OP.

You're trying to prove that Islam is a false religion based on what the Quran has to say. Say I agree with you (because I'm neither Christian nor Jew nor Muslim....in fact I'm not religious at all). But then I also believe that like the Quran while the Bible makes a good read, it is more or less fiction too. As are many of the religious stories told about other religions.
Can you prove otherwise? Can you prove that any religion is true?

[total relism]

I haven't read this thread through, but I do have few questions for the OP.

You're trying to prove that Islam is a false religion based on what the Quran has to say. Say I agree with you (because I'm neither Christian nor Jew nor Muslim....in fact I'm not religious at all). But then I also believe that like the Quran while the Bible makes a good read, it is more or less fiction too. As are many of the religious stories told about other religions.
Can you prove otherwise? Can you prove that any religion is true?

Great question, I believe it can be shown to be true, but at same time cannot prove it to be true. Just as anything that is past event, we cant prove abraham Lincoln was a real person. We can show all evidence indicates this, body with his name on tombstone, photos,people claim its him etc etc. So it would be constant with belief he is true. I believe the same can be shown with bible. I will eventually do a thread on this very subject.

[rajpoot]

Great question, I believe it can be shown to be true, but at same time cannot prove it to be true. Just as anything that is past event, we cant prove abraham Lincoln was a real person. We can show all evidence indicates this, body with his name on tombstone, photos,people claim its him etc etc. So it would be constant with belief he is true. I believe the same can be shown with bible. I will eventually do a thread on this very subject.

I look forward to that thread.
I do however believe that statements/stories from religious texts, (no matter which is the religion in question) can also be used to show that what's written is anything more than a fairy tale. That would require some faith in modern science though.

[Strike For The South]

, we cant prove abraham Lincoln was a real person.

This is the problem with mass literacy

[The Lurker Below]

Would an athiest bookstore keep a copy of the bible on their fantasy shelves?

[Beskar]

Would an athiest bookstore keep a copy of the bible on their fantasy shelves?

A secular book store keeps the bible under the "Religions" section.

[drone]

I disagree fully with you, as does the bible,the koran, and any jewish text. They all claim absolute truth, they all contradict each other. Just because someone believes in one god, does not mean they believe in the same god. Jahovahs witness also believe in one god. Nt jesus says he is last profit none to come after, either the nt is gods word inspired and koran false, or it is wrong in witch case as I pointed out they are both false.

And yet you just repeated my argument back to me. Of course each claims absolute truth, they are religions after all. How they depict their deity and how they choose to worship their deity will be different. You said you believe the hebrew god is the same as the christian god, why do you choose to ignore those contradictions but not regarding the muslim god?

Your koran does not speak well of christian and jews either.

1. It's not my koran.
2. Muslims consider jews and christians "people of the book". You may not believe all three worship the same god, but muslims do. Look up the term "Abrahamic religions".
3. And since their book is a later edition, they get to badmouth the others in print.

[rvg]

2. Muslims consider jews and christians "people of the book".

True, but they're still supposed to hate both jews and christians. They can't treat jews and christians like cattle as would be the case with the pagans, but still.

You may not believe all three worship the same god, but muslims do.

That largely depends on whom you believe to have revealed koran to mohammed. If it was Gabriel, then yes. What if it was Lucifer though?

3. And since their book is a later edition, they get to badmouth the others in print.

And they do so in abundance.

[drone]

True, but they're still supposed to hate both jews and christians. They can't treat jews and christians like cattle as would be the case with the pagans, but still.
...
And they do so in abundance.

Think of it as a dog humping another to assert dominance. About as apt a description of proselytizing religions as any, I guess.

Muslims may not like jews or christians, but this does not have any bearing on whether islam is the one true faith or not. It just means they are kinda dicks about it.

[rvg]

Muslims may not like jews or christians, but this does not have any bearing on whether islam is the one true faith or not. It just means they are kinda dicks about it.

I would take it a step further and say that they're required to be dicks about it.

[Papewaio]

I disagree fully with you, as does the bible,the koran, and any jewish text. They all claim absolute truth, they all contradict each other. Just because someone believes in one god, does not mean they believe in the same god. Jahovahs witness also believe in one god. Nt jesus says he is last profit none to come after, either the nt is gods word inspired and koran false, or it is wrong in witch case as I pointed out they are both false. Your koran does not speak well of christian and jews either.

Lets apply your standards, and to be internally consistent we should start with the book set most of us are more familiar wih. First standard for something to be true is to be non-contradictory.

Apart from contradictions between versions and editions within versions, the bible contradicts itself within books in an edition. The contradictions start with the very first two Gensis books. These have enough contradictions to be by your standards false.

Not only do the foundation pillars falsify themselves by not stating the same facts of a situation one only needs to read the gospels to see different versions of the same story. Again by your standards as they are not in one to one agreement this makes them false.

So by your rules that contradictions means they are false you've just proved that the bible is a false set of books.

Your rules, not mine.

[total relism]

And yet you just repeated my argument back to me. Of course each claims absolute truth, they are religions after all. How they depict their deity and how they choose to worship their deity will be different. You said you believe the hebrew god is the same as the christian god, why do you choose to ignore those contradictions but not regarding the muslim god?


1. It's not my koran.
2. Muslims consider jews and christians "people of the book". You may not believe all three worship the same god, but muslims do. Look up the term "Abrahamic religions".
3. And since their book is a later edition, they get to badmouth the others in print.

What contradictions between OT and NT? please let me now. But as I said the god of Islam and the bible are very diffident. The bible and jesus say right off anyone that comes after me is false, I am the last to be sent. the koran as well, if you are Muslim reads your own koran. Allah feels very diffident than you on christian and jews.

[9:28] O you who believe, the idol worshipers are polluted; they shall not be permitted to approach the Sacred Masjid after this year. If you fear loss of income, GOD will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth among those who received the scripture, until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

Blasphemies
[9:30] The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.

Upholding the Teachings of Religious Leaders Instead of God's Teachings
[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords,* instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners

Footnote

[9:32] They want to put out GOD's light with their mouths, but GOD insists upon perfecting His light, in spite of the disbelievers.

"Submission" Destined to Prevail*
[9:33] He is the One who sent His messenger* with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers

So I have pointed out to you on two post, were allah disagrees with you on what christian/jews worship. You have what is called modern liberal politically correct view of religions, not based on any truth.

I look forward to that thread.
I do however believe that statements/stories from religious texts, (no matter which is the religion in question) can also be used to show that what's written is anything more than a fairy tale. That would require some faith in modern science though.

I look forward to hearing your objections when I do the post. I do hope you come to it with open mind and not outright dismiss something because it may be from god. that would not make scence true.

This is the problem with mass literacy

You cannot prove it, prove it to me show me it. Impossible, you can show me pictures,things people wrote,a body in a grave etc but you cant prove to me he is real. It could be a hoax etc. but all evidence is constant with the belief he was real so no reason to reject it.

Lets apply your standards, and to be internally consistent we should start with the book set most of us are more familiar wih. First standard for something to be true is to be non-contradictory.

Apart from contradictions between versions and editions within versions, the bible contradicts itself within books in an edition. The contradictions start with the very first two Gensis books. These have enough contradictions to be by your standards false.

Not only do the foundation pillars falsify themselves by not stating the same facts of a situation one only needs to read the gospels to see different versions of the same story. Again by your standards as they are not in one to one agreement this makes them false.

So by your rules that contradictions means they are false you've just proved that the bible is a false set of books.

Your rules, not mine.

Well you just made alot of claims about contradictions, that you claim genesis 1 and 2 contradict gives me good reason to assume you never read the bible. lets say you give your top 3 contradictions in bible. I will give my top 3 for koran. Does that sound good?


But allah agrees with me, as does bible and jesus, they cant both be true.


[9:28] O you who believe, the idol worshipers are polluted; they shall not be permitted to approach the Sacred Masjid after this year. If you fear loss of income, GOD will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth among those who received the scripture, until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

Blasphemies
[9:30] The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.

Upholding the Teachings of Religious Leaders Instead of God's Teachings
[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords,* instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners

Footnote

[9:32] They want to put out GOD's light with their mouths, but GOD insists upon perfecting His light, in spite of the disbelievers.

"Submission" Destined to Prevail*
[9:33] He is the One who sent His messenger* with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers


also please try and explain these differences.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=531553

[Hax]

I do hope you come to it with open mind and not outright dismiss something because it may be from god.

What.