North Korea to follow Germany's model

[Husar]

No, tested a glorious nuclear device that will save them from the oppressive clutches of evil imperialists.

[Husar]

There is a new development, apparently the country now stands for free distribution of information.

http://www.latimes.com/business/tech...,2555878.story

Although some are questioning the validity of the supposed move--the Pirate Bay had made a similar claim in 2007--the site's IP address has been traced to Pyongyang, North Korea.

"If it's a joke, it's a very elaborate one," said a user on Hacker News, a tech news forum.

"We believe that being offered our virtual asylum in Korea is a first step of this country's changing view of access to information," the site's statement says. "We will do our best to influence the Korean leaders to also let their own population use our service, and to make sure that we can help improve the situation in any way we can."

In related news, Kim Jong Un wants to talk to Obama and mister Rodman confirms he's a cool guy, current politics aside:



Also take that Human Rights Act to gitmo first and then you can lecture other countries about their dirty laundry.

[Ibrahim]

At some point NK will be open to tourism and we will all be able to flock to see the unicorn lair that the Great Leader found.

that's not what the North Koreans claimed to have found:it's bit more boring than that. there was a mistranslation and lack of care in reporting.

doesn't change the fact that North Korea is a crazy place, but it's crazy enough as it is: it doesn't need to be embellished.

As to the recent news: if he's trying to liberalize his country, he's not doing a very good job at it:

http://dalje.com/tv/en/index.php?id=14437m238f646b998e

he should be trying to be friendly to South Korea, not risk starting another incident, or worse.

[Husar]

that's not what the North Koreans claimed to have found:it's bit more boring than that.

So is the pirate bay story, was a hoax after all, which really surprised me of course, I cried for a few hours.

As for Kim doing a bad job, the question is whether he is really in charge or just the figurehead of an oligarchy of military commanders who demand the hardline stance to manifest their own power. My impression is that he cannot really decide everything alone and there's a weird mix of him being the muchacho uno and everybody playing along with it but behind the curtains he cannot really do whatever he wants without the military leaders. Otherwise the discrepancy between the things people say who talked to Kim directly and the official state output is hard to explain other than by saying he's lieing through his teeth to every stranger who trusts him somewhat. The latter would mean that his studies in Switzerland left no impression on him at all and he actually believes North Korea is better than what he saw in Switzerland. Better for him at least but if you look at his "luxury", it still looks worse than what ordinary swiss people can probably afford.

Wait, I'm starting to drift, what I wanted to say is that the capitalist aggression pact that China and the USA brought to the UN forced NK to act, he wanted to talk to Obama but Obama just sent a faceless message of punishment instead. Way to screw this up, Obama.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I would compare North Korea's political situation (very loosely) to that of Japan towards the end of WWII.

Which would've been an apt comparison if it were not utterly wrong. It's relatively well documented what kind of country Japan was, and it was no North Korea and certainly never aspired to be.

[Papewaio]

Which would've been an apt comparison if it were not utterly wrong. It's relatively well documented what kind of country Japan was, and it was no North Korea and certainly never aspired to be.

I wouldn't say utterly wrong.

Admittedly Imperial Japan was a colonial super power that steam rolled through East Asia. Killed civilian prisoners and POWs by the thousand, its own people were starving during the end of the war and it was a problem during occupation to get enough food staples to the people. The Japanese people adored their god emperor too and it was a very fine line to be trod in trying him for war crimes and accept mass rebellion or let him live so that his subjects would be peaceful.

So all in all North Korea looks a much more benign toothless tiger compared with Imperial Japan. Both suffered from the cult of personality and militarization of both economy and political sphere. Which eroded personal freedoms because people would unite against an enemy real or not whilst letting slide laws that were there for the good of the political-military apparatus not the people.

[Papewaio]

Because as much as I am a huge fan of the Total War series, I do realise from time to time I am not playing the good guys. I might play them "better" by not ransacking each city, but the reality is that apart from pretty flags and uniforms a lot of these nations were pretty brutal and oppressive.

The mighty Samurai might have been put away well before WW II but the Bushido ethos was still in full swing. In fact by removing the Samurai side, the way of the Bushido might have become to much military and not enough servant. When a rule system is taken out of context and applied to other scenarios it wasn't intended for you end up with the likes of the massacre of Nanking.

It is a terrible thing that can happen when mobs are lead by the drums of war. It is very difficult to swim against the flow in these circumstances. It is made more difficult when we believe are leaders have all the information and are making perfect decisions based on it. The fog of war is much worse in real life then it is in any of the TW games. In TW our agents are our agents, but in real life agents can be double and triple agents, information can be suspect, false positives abound and whilst in games we have limitless strategic time, in real life time is the most precious resource with no reloads.

So whilst I realise that I'm a huge fan or modern Japan and the games of TW particularly Shogun. I am not a fan of how Japan was manipulated by itself and acted towards others during the WWII era.

[Tellos Athenaios]

How is it that Pape clearly saw my point, and TA did not? I can only chalk it up to not reading my post fully, perhaps due to false preconceptions of the point he thought I was trying to make?

Eh? If your comparison is nothing more than "they both had cults of personality" and both referred to a single human as ultimate godlike authority that's like saying Greek and English are the same language because both use an alphabet.

Whatever the role of the Emperor it was also the case that Japanese officials had some degree of autonomous decision making and their authority was not solely based on being appointed by the Emperor but also by the status earned through their career. In fact, autonomous decisions by officials instead of consulting with/waiting for approval from the Emperor and adapting to changing circumstances was a major component in Japan's initial success. This has numerous practical consequences, one of which was that Japan's policies were a genuine reflection of the particular officials in power -- Japan's foreign policy or negotiations change significantly depending on who are the top few officials for instance. This is most dramatically illustrated towards the end of WW2: Japan's attitude is strongly determined by the top few military officials and while during the war the moderates had been more or less replaced with the hardliners, but towards the very end the hardliners are sidelined and Japan enters negotiations.

That is quite unlike North Korea in which it is the whims of dear leader that decide what North Korea is going to pretend to be tomorrow.

More importantly politics and by extension the "political situation" is a reflection of what kind of country we're dealing with. Fundamentally Japan was a modern country, still clinging on to some antiquated traditions but otherwise every bit as modern as the major powers of the day. Japan was a power to be reckoned with, even in the aftermath of WW2 -- much like Germany. It was despite everything still a nominally functional country with a sense of a social contract, it's politics and political situation reflected this.

North Korea is a basket case that is only allowed to survive because nobody can be bothered if they are silent and if they are not then nobody wants to deal with the mess. So North Korea's politics is little more than a careful projected image designed to extort as much from others as they can. Internally North Korea is simply the twisted and deformed result of a very strange type of dictatorship which essentially views the people as its slaves to do with as it pleases. So yeah, if anything its political situation is built around fear, around staying in the good books, around being the one to do the whipping instead of being the one to be whipped. And that means being seen to worship dear leader and to do whatever dear leader says, without question and without fail.

[Kralizec]

Because as much as I am a huge fan of the Total War series, I do realise from time to time I am not playing the good guys. I might play them "better" by not ransacking each city, but the reality is that apart from pretty flags and uniforms a lot of these nations were pretty brutal and oppressive.

The mighty Samurai might have been put away well before WW II but the Bushido ethos was still in full swing. In fact by removing the Samurai side, the way of the Bushido might have become to much military and not enough servant. When a rule system is taken out of context and applied to other scenarios it wasn't intended for you end up with the likes of the massacre of Nanking.

It is a terrible thing that can happen when mobs are lead by the drums of war. It is very difficult to swim against the flow in these circumstances. It is made more difficult when we believe are leaders have all the information and are making perfect decisions based on it. The fog of war is much worse in real life then it is in any of the TW games. In TW our agents are our agents, but in real life agents can be double and triple agents, information can be suspect, false positives abound and whilst in games we have limitless strategic time, in real life time is the most precious resource with no reloads.

So whilst I realise that I'm a huge fan or modern Japan and the games of TW particularly Shogun. I am not a fan of how Japan was manipulated by itself and acted towards others during the WWII era.

Hmm. I think it's easier to think of the Japanese nationalist hysteria & war mentality during WW2 as being honest and genuine.

The North Koreans have endured for far longer, under far worse conditions than the WW2 Japanese did; with largely no shooting going on against the enemy. The entire country has been on the brink of starvation for 2 decades and not a single bomb has been dropped on North Korea, nor has a single US soldier set foot there. There's a limit on how long you can perpetuate a genuine siege mentality.

Consider those pictures of ordinary North Koreans bursting into tears upon hearing that Kim Jong-Il died. How many of those were genuinely devastated, and how many of them simply cried because it was expected of them, because they wanted to safeguard their career and future in general? The Emperor's new clothes and all that...

[Husar]

Eh? If your comparison is nothing more than "they both had cults of personality" and both referred to a single human as ultimate godlike authority that's like saying Greek and English are the same language because both use an alphabet.

Mhh, yes, but let's look further.

Whatever the role of the Emperor it was also the case that Japanese officials had some degree of autonomous decision making and their authority was not solely based on being appointed by the Emperor but also by the status earned through their career. In fact, autonomous decisions by officials instead of consulting with/waiting for approval from the Emperor and adapting to changing circumstances was a major component in Japan's initial success. This has numerous practical consequences, one of which was that Japan's policies were a genuine reflection of the particular officials in power -- Japan's foreign policy or negotiations change significantly depending on who are the top few officials for instance. This is most dramatically illustrated towards the end of WW2: Japan's attitude is strongly determined by the top few military officials and while during the war the moderates had been more or less replaced with the hardliners, but towards the very end the hardliners are sidelined and Japan enters negotiations.

Probably true, I have no clue.

That is quite unlike North Korea in which it is the whims of dear leader that decide what North Korea is going to pretend to be tomorrow.

Here we have the problem. The point GC and I wanted to make was that this is probably not the case. To the outside it may look like North Korea is led by the leader but our precious feelings say the military top officials have a whole lot to say themselves.
IMO there is some sort of weird and unclear situation, think the king with the invisible clothes. They're probably really powerful as a group but noone would want to be the only one confronting the dear leader because in that case you actually get mortar rounds dropped onto your head since the others wouldn't dare join the criticism. IF the dear leader did however tell the military brass that military spending gets cut in half, peace is made with the south and democratic elections are to follow, the real might of these people would probably show and the world would learn that unfortunately the dear leader had fallen ill and died mysteriously in a unicorn lair...

A very complicated situation for everyone involved, but it would explain a lot of the different messages that get out. To think that the whole country really just does what the dear leader wants is a step too far, even the peasants don't all do and believe that.

I found this excerpt quite cute or moving for lack of a better word:

"In order to make sure the mobile phone frequencies are not being tracked, I would fill up a washbasin with water and put the lid of a rice cooker over my head while I made a phone call," said one interviewee, a 28-year-old man who left the country in November 2010.

"I don't know if it worked or not, but I was never caught."

[Husar]

A really nice interview from North Korea came up. French photographer Eric Lafforgue went there and talked to his assistant guide for a bit.

http://www.ericlafforgue.com/wp-cont...0-in-DPRK-.pdf

-Do you always lock your bike in Pyongyang?
-Yes Mr Eric.
-So theft happens in North Korea?
-No, it doesn’t.
-If you lock it, there must be a reason why!
-Your question is embarrassing. Let’s carry on with the visit please

It's an amazing country, although I haven't heard about the progress on their following Germany's economic model, maybe the dark side of their force prevailed after all.

[Kadagar_AV]

I read the whole thing, quite interesting.

As a sidenote: They give every customer plastic gloves at hamburger places... Say what you want, I still find it quite more civilized than what I see around me here...

[Greyblades]

What the hell is in their burgers that they need safety gloves to handle them?

[gaelic cowboy]

What the hell is in their burgers that they need safety gloves to handle them?

If it was only horse meat it would be ok.

[Husar]

As a sidenote: They give every customer plastic gloves at hamburger places... Say what you want, I still find it quite more civilized than what I see around me here...

That would be slide 30 of the pdf. Whether wasting plastic like that is more civilized or even cleaner in a country that probably doesn't have a lot of the hygiene rules and methods we have in most places is debatable.

And there is always sauce in burgers. Sauce that will come out on all sides and goo itself all over your fingers and hand. Using a plastic glove will keep it off your hands but I'm not sure whether I like gooey platic gloves, especially if they only fit loosely it can lead to other gooey accidents or just feel even gooeyer than without.

I think they have only one unicorn left because they all loved unicorn meat on their burgers.

[Empire*Of*Media]

:flower: :flower:

you did not understand?! so>> https://translate.google.com/#auto/k...mn%20Americans

so do not insult to Humanity's Supreme GREAT LeADER !
!! lol :D

[drone]

You can tell it's been a while since @Proletariat gave out language warnings, it's : daisy :, not : flower :.